38 Cadillac steering box

[J Williamson]

I have a 38 Cadillac series 65 steering box worm and roller that are corroded beyond use. The corrosion damage is very deep and the bearings are pitted also. The steering box is now in the UK, the car is in India and once belonged to the Maharaja of Jind. The box can be sent to the US.

Has anyone any experience of a solution for this? I understand the worm is impossible to repair and that sometimes a different worm/roller can be adapted. I have searched for a replacement but even if one could be found its condition would be unknown.
Thanks in advance.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

One thing seeing as the car was in India, is it Right Hand Drive?

If so, you are limited in your chances of a replacement.

Bruce.

[J Williamson]

Yes it is RH drive, the box looks quite different.

[J Williamson]

Does anyone have experience of Fen Enterprises or Lares corporation or RPM engineering for this sort of steering box problem? Or can suggest any possible company who can help?

For anyone interested here is a forum thread on Cadillacs in India.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vintage-cars-classics-india/72675-cadillacs-india.html

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

The major difference, apart from the mountings, is that the RHD Steering Box internals are opposite to the LHD boxes, and they will not interchange, apart from the bearings.

If your box it totally worn out, then I would be looking in Australia for a possible replacement.   There is a large Cadillac and LaSalle contingent here, and if there is one available, or parts, I am pretty sure that it would be made available to you.

GM didn't make any RHD Cadillacs after WWII, but did make their other brands, Buick till 1953, Oldsmobile till 1949, Chevrolet and Pontiac till 1968.

Bruce.

[J Williamson]

Thanks for the info Bruce, I will join the Aus club and see what turns up.
Julian Williamson

[tozerco]

Julian,

Go to this site and see if you can contact John King. He may be able to help.

http://cadillaclasalleclub.com.au/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=8

Good luck,



John Tozer
#7946

[J Williamson]

Thanks for the lead.
I have already filled in their form and am waiting for their confirmation email.

I have been trying to find a king pin kit for Series 65 with 132 inch wheelbase. They seem to be available for the 160 inch wheelbase only, which I presume is the "commercial" chassis? Are the thrust bearings the same?

[Steve Passmore]

Intrigued as to why the box would be here in the UK? where are you based? anyhow its probably the best place as there are company's here that will make any gear part, I know of complete gearbox innards being made so a worm and roller shouldn't be impossible. You could also look to another GM product as some right hand drive Cadillacs Ive seen here have used Buick steering box's as RHD Buick's  are much more prolific in the Commonwealth.

[Classic]

I recommend http://www.larescorp.com/index.html .  Paul Lares is the president of the company and he is also the regional director of the Upper Midwest Region of the Classic Car Club of America.  A true car guy.  He has a '40 Cadillac (among others).  Email him (paullares@larescorp.com) and see what he suggests.  Attach pictures if you have any.

[J Williamson]

I will contact larescorp  Thanks for the lead.

I have consulted a steering box specialist here who also adapts other worm/gears as replacements but grinding a new worm to the same form is not possible. They were made on very special machines. Gears are easy to make but a steering worm like this is the one part in a car that never gets remade.
The box was brought to the UK by the owner for repair, luckily most cars in India are low mileage so steering boxes survive but corrosion is the problem.

[Steve Passmore]

Quote  "I will contact larescorp  Thanks for the lead.

I have consulted a steering box specialist here who also adapts other worm/gears as replacements but grinding a new worm to the same form is not possible. They were made on very special machines. Gears are easy to make but a steering worm like this is the one part in a car that never gets remade"  Quote

If you believe this to be true there would be little point in contacting any engineering works anywhere in the world, and contacts in the USA would not have a RHD box parts, which leaves you Aus for a used box as suggested,
 
I'm not completely convinced you couldn't use some of the internals from a left hand drive box though, sure, every-things round the wrong way as far as the casing goes but the worm and roller should be the same, unless of coarse they used a different box for the RHD!
A word of warning, there are four different steering boxes used in 37-38.  Your 65 shares the same box as the 70 but no other.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

With an RHD Box, the gears are ground on opposite tapers and angles, as the sector is positioned on the opposite side to the mating gear.

Bruce.

[Steve Passmore]

With an RHD Box, the gears are ground on opposite tapers and angles, as the sector is positioned on the opposite side to the mating gear.

Bruce.

I take your point, but unless you can find something from your part of the world Mr Willionson is clutching at straws.

[J Williamson]

I am also concerned that even if I can find a replacement RH drive box in Aus it is likely to have some wear/damage as well. If the worm is intact then I can probably deal with roller and the bearings here.
I will contact Larescorp later today and await  joining the Aus Cad club permission to post on their forum.
Thanks to all for the inputs.

[Steve Passmore]

Just had a good look at my 37 steering box, the roller is actually pined through the casting of the Pitman arm shaft on an angle to mate with the worm so it is not right or left cut to the gear and could be used in RHD or LHD boxes. The worm is held on the column shaft by a key-way I think and could be removed.  The 50 and 60 series Cadillac shares its steering box with Buick 40 and 60 series also Pontiac and Olds albeit with a longer or shorter column.   It would be interesting to know if the 65 series Cadillac shared anything with the larger series Buick boxes? sadly theres only the 90 series Buick box to consider, whereas there are three other types of Cadillac box.

If you find a replacement in Aus some corrosion may be acceptable. I have rebuild box's that were cratered with corrosion but  found the car drove normally, due to the slow worm speed I guess, the bearing surface is important though for proper adjustment.

[J Williamson]

Paul Lares of Lares corp has offered assistance, I have sent him a lot of photos. The Australian club have yet to allow posting on their forum....
Thanks  Mr S Passmore so a Buick 90 Series box is the same?
Here are a couple of photos ......

[Steve Passmore]

[quote author
Thanks  Mr S Passmore so a Buick 90 Series box is the same?
.....
[/quote]

No, I didn't say that, I just wondered if it shared anything with the big Buick.  had that been the case you would have had a greater scope for a RHD box either here or in Aus,. looking at your pictures it looks identical to the small Cadillac and Buick gears but I guess there must be a size difference. Can you give me more accurate measurements including the column shaft size and pitman arm size. also is your vernier actually on the ends of the bearing cones? Steve

[J Williamson]

Pitman arm is still in India, but I can have the hole centre to centre measured if necessary.

Worm shaft diameter 1.00"
Overall length of worm/shaft 6.975"
Length of worm without bearing inner races  3.125"
Largest diameter of worm 2.350"
Largest diameter of wheel/roller 2.175"
Thickness of wheel/roller 1.0625"

[Steve Passmore]

I'll dismantle a Buick steering box within the next few days and compare these sizes. Whats the size of the pitman shaft with the wheel casting attached? and where are you located?  Email me direct or call me on 01454 313467  Steve