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New 73 Fleetwood Eldorado Conv Pace Car

Started by Sllack, May 23, 2011, 08:22:38 PM

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Sllack

Hello all. I just bought an very nice survivor.

I also just joined the national club and plan on joining the N Texas Club soon.

I have lots of questions, but plan on reading up here first.. But any advice on web sources or paper sources is much appreciated.

I plan on keeping it original, or making it moreso, but for now keeping it a show driver; concours maybe later!
Signed JKopra

1973 Fleetwood Eldorado Convertible

David King (kz78hy)

Contact Tim Pawl, he is an expert on the 73 pace cars and would be very interested in your car.

Here is his contact info

pawl@earthlink.net

David
David King
CLC 22014  (life)
1958 Eldorado Brougham 615
1959 Eldorado Brougham 56- sold
1960 Eldorado Brougham 83- sold
1998 Deville d'Elegance
1955 Eldorado #277
1964 Studebaker Commander
2012 Volt
CLCMRC benefactor 197

Director and Founder, Eldorado Brougham Chapter
Past President, Motor City Region

Rare Parts brand suspension parts Retailer via Keep'em Running Automotive

Davidinhartford

Congrats on your purchase!   

Be sure to share some pics with us.

Sllack

Thanks. I will be generous with pics asap. It was purchased in Pittsburgh, and needs to travel to my shop in Erie to be gone over before heading to Texas.
Signed JKopra

1973 Fleetwood Eldorado Convertible

TJ Hopland

Its an actual pace car?  Or one of the replica cars with the plaques?  Or just a white w/red interior covert like mine?
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

C.R. Patton II

Hello

You made a good choice for a vehicle. Welcome to our club. You now have access to the wisdom of the elders, the knowledge of the manufactures and the speculation of the masses. We are your peers here to serve you. There are no dumb questions so fall back and spring forward with anything on your mind. I hope to see you at the Grand National this summer.
All good men own a Cadillac but great gentlemen drive a LaSalle. That is the consequence of success.

Sllack

Thanks for the replies.

The answer to the pace car question is: "I don't know".

From what the seller has told me it was sold as a dealer 'clone' pacecar, which I believe only about 500 were made, but was later in life repainted plain white for use at parades and shows, some owner didn't like the Pace Car stenciling I guess?

I like it now, but I want to eventually restore it to it's Pace Car stenciling *if I can get enough info* on how to do that, and if I can validate the claim that it was a dealer clone.

So right now research wise:

How can I confirm it's Pace Car (clone) history?

I have a mechanical question:

The current owner said he never ran the A/C in the 5 years he owned it. So I am assuming at minimum the compressor is no good.

While on the one hand I believe in originality, on the other hand I would rather go R-134a.

So my question has multiple questions:

1) Is the radiator and fan powerful enough to survive AC running in 100 degree+ weather (I live in North Texas)?
2) Does anyone have experience or advice on repairing the original system versus conversion to R-134a, I prefer the later I think, and if so keeping the original climate control (I do not want to add an under dash box like you see in alot of custom cars).

I do have a little experience with aftermarket R-134a systems - I installed one on a 56 DeSoto Hardtop, but used the "box under the dash" approach, which I was never thrilled with, it kept it cool but stuck out...


Signed JKopra

1973 Fleetwood Eldorado Convertible

TMoore - NTCLC

Hi JK, and congratulations on your purchase - I will look forward to seeing the car at some of our events (hopefully it will be ready for our regional in Oct.).

I personally would encourage you to consider keeping the air conditioning all original, and using R-12 in the system.  Every component on your car (compressor, evaporator, condenser, etc.) is readily available in case you need to replace any of these.  The system was designed and engineered for R-12, and a properly functioning system will be more than sufficient for the Texas heat.  I had a 1974 Eldorado that I had converted to 134a with dismal results - the system just never would put out temps that would cool the car.  I then went back in with R-12 and never had any problems.  R-12 can still be found, and is not too much more expensive than 134a.  All of my Cadillacs that have R-12 systems are still running with R-12, and even in the summer, it is not uncommon to get 38-40 degree vent temps out of the systems.  At the end of the day, the slight premium for R-12 will be much cheaper than to engineer a properly designed or converted 134a system for your car.

Again, welcome to both the National, and we all look forward to seeing you at our Local events -


David King (kz78hy)

If you contact Tim Pawl, (see post at the top), he can tell you if the car is real or a clone.  Tim keeps the registry for these cars and has all the VIN's, so if you provide that, he can tell you if it matches up.  BTW, he is taking his car back to Indy this year for an event at the track.  His car was used in the '73 race and carried Neil Armstrong as I recall.  Tim has lots of documention for his car as well as others.

David
David King
CLC 22014  (life)
1958 Eldorado Brougham 615
1959 Eldorado Brougham 56- sold
1960 Eldorado Brougham 83- sold
1998 Deville d'Elegance
1955 Eldorado #277
1964 Studebaker Commander
2012 Volt
CLCMRC benefactor 197

Director and Founder, Eldorado Brougham Chapter
Past President, Motor City Region

Rare Parts brand suspension parts Retailer via Keep'em Running Automotive

Tim Pawl CLC#4383

Welcome to the club and congrats on your purchase...the first thing you will need to do is purchase a "CLC Authenticity Manual for Class 24A  , 1973 Cadillac Eldorado Indianapolis Pace Car" . It is found on this sites home page under "Authenticity Manuals".  It gives every detail on the cars.    Second get me the VIN number and I will put your car in the registry and tell you if it is one of the Total of 566 cars that were made (53 cars were used at the track and 513 were replicas).    I have the side decals available for purchase, they are made exactly from the originals correct in every way ....."accept no substitutes" as there are several people supplying them that are incorrect in style and width and , method of application.       I just returned from the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, where we drove our car #22 of 53 used at the track. We participated in the Pace Car reunion held on Pole Day.     Our car was on display with around 200 other Pace Cars of all years .  We got to do a lap of the speedway  .......  Haven't stopped grinning in three days...... drove the car  645 miles round trip, purred like a mountain lion with a rabbit lunch.    Averaged 14.2 miles per gallon           Tim Pawl, CLC#4383             248-709-9471       

Tim Pawl CLC#4383

Note to Dave King....my Pace Car carried Hank Stram, coach of the SuperBowl Champion Kansas City Chiefs, during the 1973 pre-race activities .         You are thinking of my other car with respect to Neil Armstrong.           Tim Pawl CLC#4383

Sllack

TMoore - I plan on being active as soon as I take delivery of the car! And I will take your advice on the A/C. Is there a vendors list anywhere you can point me to for parts? I haven't had much trouble looking up common parts - brakes, ball joints, shocks, etc; and the prices I see are very reasonable. But I haven't dug into AC parts yet (since I don't know what it will need yet).

Tim Pawl -  I sent you an email yesterday so you should have my contact info, if not please let me know. Just got off the phone with Mike and Nancy at the club and purchased the manual, hopefully will see it in 2-3 weeks. Just printed a copy of the judging manual as well.

Here is the VIN the seller gave me: 6L67S30428509 , I can't get anything from carfax with that #.
Signed JKopra

1973 Fleetwood Eldorado Convertible

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

JK,
Don't assume anything such as the compressor being bad.  I recently found a '75 Coupe that had sit for 8 or so years, and I ASSUMED it would need a lot of AC work.  I checked first, and all I ended up doing is recharging the system (there still was a small amount of refrigerant in the system) with R-12 and it is still operating flawlessly.
Years back I tried R-134a in one of my cars and it worked well until May.  I live in southern Texas (San Antonio), and once the heat and humidity started climbing, there was no way on earth the AC would function well enough to be considered a Cadillac.  Went back to R-12, and the complaint I get from my wife when we take that car is "It's too cold in here".
I did an article on R-134a conversions for the self starter a few years back, and the short version is that I, with all the tools, equipment, know how and experience highly recommend sticking with R-12.
Coincidentally, the EU (European Union) has mandated that all new cars produced in 2012 be HFC free, that means no more R-134a.  With the American and Asian manufacturers not wanting to loose the EU market, they are following suit.  You guessed it, R-134a will go the way of R-12, it (R-134a) being replaced by the new refrigerant HFO-1234yf. Estimated costs; over $60.00 per pound (wholesale).
The never ending saga.
Greg s
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

76eldo

R-12 will give better results.  It's way more expensive though.

Here's  another place to get info:

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/big_eldorado/

It's a message forum for 71-78 Eldo owners.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

TJ Hopland

My experience with converted cars is usually they are fine cruising down the road but when you slow down you loose the cooling.   In some cases I have seen rather expensive kits that change out components that help but I doubt there would be that sort of off the shelf option for cars that old. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Tim Pawl CLC#4383

Joe,  Your VIN 6L67S3Q428509   is not on the list of cars that received the "SR20 Pace Car Decor" Option at the factory.   The two nearest cars are 6L67S3Q428427 and 6L67S3Q428521.
Did you have any other documentation such as a factory "window sticker", a photograph of the Body data plate (located on the passenger side cowl underhood), or an original spare tire with  DOT date codes (The Pace car option included Special tires) or any other info that could be used to identify......unfornuately a "Pace Car Replica" dash plaque is not a good indicator, as these could be ordered by dealer and added later.   The Pace Car tires on the other hand (with special segmented arc whitewall between raised white letters) could not be ordered or replaced, per Cadillac Serviceman Bulletin.  Both Goodyear and Firestone supplied tires.   The "Goodyear SteelGard" Radials tires were the first radial tires ever on an Indy Pace Car.....the other available "Firestone Steel 500 Radial" tires were eventually recalled (due to failures, one of the festival pace cars crashed during the month of May, before the race) and were eventually replaced with "Firestone 721" radials   Tim Pawl   CLC#4383       248-709-9471

Sllack

Thanks Tim. I will go through it once I take delivery and let you know if I find more details.
Signed JKopra

1973 Fleetwood Eldorado Convertible

Lars Kneller 8246

Note both Hank Stram and Neil Armstrong are Purdue grads.

Lars, B.S., Purdue, 1981

David King (kz78hy)

Good point Lars

David King
B.S., Purdue, 1983
David King
CLC 22014  (life)
1958 Eldorado Brougham 615
1959 Eldorado Brougham 56- sold
1960 Eldorado Brougham 83- sold
1998 Deville d'Elegance
1955 Eldorado #277
1964 Studebaker Commander
2012 Volt
CLCMRC benefactor 197

Director and Founder, Eldorado Brougham Chapter
Past President, Motor City Region

Rare Parts brand suspension parts Retailer via Keep'em Running Automotive