Author Topic: 1960 engine mount removal ???????????????????  (Read 1509 times)

1960 engine mount removal ???????????????????
« on: June 17, 2011, 05:18:48 PM »
I'm trying to replace the engine mounts on a 1960 without removing the engine, The larger bolt that attaches to the chassis is on a very awkward angle and I just can't seem to get a socket on it even with a knuckle joint.
Does anybody know if I may need a special tool for this or should I just keep swearing at it until it comes off?
Jason Gendrolius.

Offline Dr. John T. Welch

  • Posts: 119
Re: 1960 engine mount removal ???????????????????
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2011, 08:34:55 PM »
Turning the 3/4" inch nut that secures the enginge mount to the frame is a challenge.  Access is from below and through the small triangle shaped  opening in the frame members.  The problem is gaining sufficient clearance for a socket and extension to properly engage the nut, given the angle of approach and the clearance dictated by the frame members.  Here is what works for me:

Remove the front tire and wheel.  Use a high quality, non- impact, thin wall, short  1/2" drive 3/4" socket together with a high quality 1/2" drive universal joint  attached to an 8" standard 1/2" drive ratchet extension.  Loosen the nut with a standard 1/2" drive breaker bar and continue to remove the nut. If the nut is rusted and frozen apply liberal amounts of "PB Blaster and allow to soak. You may need a 3 foot "cheater" extension pipe applied over the breaker bar for increased leverage. Fortunately, the frame braces will secure the  reatchet textension on the nut during applcation of turning force.   Do not use an air drive impact tool as the angle of approach to the nut is too severe for effective torque delivery through the universal joint. The hammering pulses will round off the hex features of the nut without turning it.

The trick to the whole thing is using a shorter than standard 3/4" socket on the nut because of the confines posed by the frame members.  The socket I use is made by MAC and is only 1.380" tall, but you could grind down a thinwall Craftsman or HF socket to the same size.  Wheel removal allows adequate swing for the breaker bar and ratchet.

Good luck.       
John T. Welch
 CLC   24277

Re: 1960 engine mount removal ???????????????????
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2011, 09:25:40 PM »
Thanks Dr John, I'll try your method asap.
You have to love the wealth of knowledge of a good forum.
Jason Gendrolius.

Re: 1960 engine mount removal ???????????????????
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2011, 04:06:22 AM »
Hi Dr John
              I have the transmission out at the moment getting serviced, Do you know if I pull the engine out can I put it back in with the transmission connected?
ie: the front wheels are on standard car ramps so there is plenty of room under the car, and I'll remove the hood.
I was just wondering if I needed to remove the crossmember that supports the radiator to be able to get the right angle to be able to get the engine in with the transmission attached?
Jason Gendrolius.

Offline Roger Zimmermann

  • Posts: 4557
  • Switzerland
  • CLC Number: 21015
  • Name: Roger Zimmermann
Re: 1960 engine mount removal ???????????????????
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2011, 06:16:24 AM »
Jason, I once removed a 1962 engine and transmission, which is almost identical to your own drivetrain. We has a fork lift to do the job, plus an elevator. To have a sufficient angle to lift the asembly, the tail from the transmission has to be very low; to have the required distance, the car was at about one meter from the floor. Without removing the radiator support, you will not be able to do it. Without the support, an easy job, I dit it on my '56 de Ville.

Roger
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Re: 1960 engine mount removal ???????????????????
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2011, 12:08:48 PM »
On my 59, I both removed and installed the engine/tranny as one unit with the center rad crossmember inplace.  The car was well supported sitting on several sets of jack stands and high enough off the floor to be able to crawl under to install the rear transmission mount.  A couple extra sets of hands is a big help....Good Luck!!
1959  Eldorado conv
1958  Porsche speedster
1948  Plymouth woody

Offline Dr. John T. Welch

  • Posts: 119
Re: 1960 engine mount removal ???????????????????
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2011, 03:06:59 PM »
I have handled engine and transmission removal/installation with units both separate and together.  It depends on the degree of disassembly and the type of car.  Removal of the core support can be troublesome, especially if the fasteners are rusted. If the core support and front sheet metal are already removed for other repair/restoration, it is easier to install the engine and transmission as a single unit.

Your safety is always the primary concern.  Let's face it: most of us are not professional riggers and stevedores.  We do not deal daily with significant masses that swing,  dangle, and move suddenly in unexpected ways to cause injury and damage.  If you work alone  and the front sheet metal, grille and  core support remain installed, for me it is safer and easier to install Cadillac units separately.

Removing and installing the units together requires attention to the angle of approach  allowing them to clear the firewall and upper core support. You are dealing with issues of tilt and vertical lift simultaneously, together with horizontal  movement to clear the car of the engine/transmission assembly or position it to receive the mated components.  This is a minimum two person task.  Unit body vehicles with fixed core supports and very tight confines that limit access to fasteners ( ex. Cobra Jet Mustangs) are best handled by removal and installation of the mated components.  The approach angle issue is handled by lowering the front of the vehicle and RAISING the rear of the vehicle to gain the necessary clearance.  This will work for you and eliminate the need to remove the core support if you install the engine/transmission as a single unit.  Be prepared with the correct equipment (engine lift/tilt device and cherry picker type hydraulic crane). Not knowing your working circumstances, past experience, and the equipment available to you, I can only recommend what is safest:   removal and installation of the units separately. Our old Cadillacs offer the luxury of space and access for service unknown in today's vehicles. Take advantage of it.

Carefully evaluate the rubber yaw cushions which support the flywheel housing portion of the transmission. Usually they are separated and brittle and require replacement or re vulcanization to provide proper support, positioning and vibration control for the powertrain.

 When the core support is in place,  I prefer to install the transmission and yaw cushions first, then position the engine WITHOUT the front mounts while the transmission is supported and raised slightly by a conventional floor jack.   This allows  fore-aft movement of the engine to align the transmission with the block dowels.  Install the flywheel housing to engine block bolts finger tight before installing the front mounts while the engine is still moveable and suspended by the lifting device.  Finally, install the front mounts to the cast mounting ears on the front of the block and then lower the engine with the front mount studs passing through the holes in the frame.  By installing the front mounts to the block last, you retain the ability to move the engine fore and aft for easy transmission alignment.  Apply final torque to specs of the engine/flywheel housing bolts BEFORE final tightening of the engine mount bolts. The front engine mount stud nut is the final fastener to be secured.   

It is much less work than it sounds.

Good luck and be safe.                               
John T. Welch
 CLC   24277

 

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