1948 Oil Pan Removal

[48ragtop]

I'd like to remove the oil pan on my 1948 to check for sludge and clean up what I can.   Does anyone have any input as to what problems I can expect to encounter?

Also where can I buy a new oil pan gasket?  I don't need a full engine set and believe I just will need the oil pan gasket.

Thanks for the assist.

Ed Wisniewski
CLC No. 26482

[vicbrincat]

Hi Ed,

just saw your post. I must admit that I have never had to remove the oil pan in my '48 with the engine still in the car, but there should be plenty of room to get at the front pan bolts. There is also lots of space to drop the pan without having to lower the steering  linkage …but can't be 100% sure.

Careful when removing  the pan...you need to clear the oil pump as well as the metal structures that have been built to prevent oil splashing and sloshing. If you have never had it off before, I have a picture of what you may expect to see. (Let me know).

As far as the gaskets, I would  try the local auto parts stores  first….that's always good for a laugh!
If that fails, try Coopers in California…I'm pretty sure they will have  JUST the oil pan gaskets.
If you just can't get anywhere, I have an extra set.
Be sure to use a good grade of RTV silicon between the individual sections of the cork gaskets. If not you WILL get oil leaks.
Some of the pan bolts go directly into through the engine boss. I would definitely use a thread sealer on each bolt to prevent oil seepage via the threads. I have found that doing this extra little bit keeps the engine and transmission oil pans very dry.

Hope this helped a little.

Vic Brincat

[48ragtop]

Vic:

Thanks for the input and response.   

Yes, if you could send any pan photos that would help.  I've not had any experience with the oil pan on this car.   Also what kind of sealant would you suggest for the bolts, would the RTV work?

I'll send you a private message with my email address for the photo.

Thanks,
Ed Wisniewski
CLC No. 26482

[vicbrincat]

Hi Ed,

my email is vicbrincat@yahoo.com. Send me a quick email and I will add the pictures.

I have hundreds of pictures of the engine in various states from the time it was pulled out to when it was back in and running. But I only have about 3 or 4 of the pictures showing the underbelly with pan out. But there should be enough for what you need.

You can use the RTV on the bolts, but I find the Permatex White sealant better.  The RTV will seal but once it hardens, it creates a problem if you need to tighten or loosen these bolts again. The Permatex seals and stays pliable so that re-torque will be possible. For the extra few $$ I would use the Permatex.

The exact product is called Permatex High Temperature Thread Sealant. It is in a white tube with red writing. It is available in two or three sizes. The smallest size will not be sufficient to do all your bolts.

I think you will have better results with the Permatex.

Vic Brincat

[48ragtop]

Vic:

Thanks for the assist.

Best.

Ed Wisniewski
CLC No. 26482

[Scott Anderson CLC#26068]

Hello Ed

I suggest giving Olson's Gaskets (www.olsonsgaskets.com) a try. They are very nice folks and quite popular in my area, the Pacific Northwest. I have purchased individual gaskets from them before and been very satisfied.

I have not removed the oilpan on my (1941 convertible coupe) myself. However the shop manual's recommended interval is 11,000 miles so I can't imagine it's a "just remove the car" type of job. For what it's worth, I have recently had a full valve job done by a local shop, which involved removing the oilpan so as to ascertain the state of the bottom end. They did not remove the engine. They do have a lift though.

Anyway HTH.
Scott

[Jay Friedman]

I don't know if it is true on a 346 engine, but on my '49 with a 331 it is necessary to unbolt the 2 bolts holding the idler arm bracket to the right side of the frame and move the steering center link down a few inches to remove the oil pan.  This is so the oil pan will clear the crankshaft and oil pump when removing it.  It could be it's the same with a 346 engine.

[kkarrer]

You can get those gaskets from just about any of the on-line Cadillac specialty folks...McVey's and the like  or from Terrill Machine here in Texas.  Google them or see their ad in Hemmings.  They'll get them out right away to you.  It's a four piece gasket as I remember.  I just replaced mine on my 41.  With a new gasket you should need a very little bit of sealant.  No need to slop it on there, esp. inside edges because it can "spooge" out and some of it can  dry and work it's way into the oil.  When you get the oil pan off (no big deal, just lots of 7/16ths bolts), put a straight edge on it and see if it's true,  If not you can work it with a hammer and dolly on a flat, true surface (garage floor) to get it straightened up.  You can also take this opportunity to knock out any major dents.  People put jacks and jack stands under these some times when installing the engine.  Wipe out the sludge then give another wipe down using carb cleaner, thinner etc.  Don't paint the inside of the oil pan.  Use a flashlight and conduct a quick check of the lower engine components and get rid of any obvious deposits there.  I've seen real gunk there sometimes.  When you replace the pan, it will be easiest to let your sealant dry a bit so that the gasket doesn't shift when you put the pan back on.  It really doesn't matter whether you apply the gasket to the pan or the block.  Next, don't over torque the bolts.  If you don't have a torque wrench, just snug them up, working across, back and forth/side to side the pan  (ie don't tighten one bolt and then the one right next to it.  Move to the opposite side of the pan for bolt number 2 then back to the opposite side and opposite end of the pan for bolt number 3 and so on.)  Now go back and retighten in the same order but with more torque...firmly seated should be about 15lbs and that should be about right.  Recheck them after you've run the engine a bit.  Also recheck your drain bolt for tightness and sealing.  If it leaks, don't overtighten it.  Go to a parts house and ask for a copper sealing washer (tell the kid behind the counter that they have them in their Dorman stuff) and use it between the bolt and pan.  If you suspect this might be a problem do it BEFORE you put oil in the pan and take the bolt with you for sizing purposes.  I'd throw some ZDP additive in it with some 10 w 30 Valvoline. In place of or in addition to the zdp you can use the blue can of STP (which by the way stands for Studebaker Packard.  They bought the oil additive company before they went out of business in the early 60's and its the only thing that's left of the two companies today, except for some cars that we all know aren't quite Cadillacs.)
Ken Karrer 1941 6227D coupe

[vicbrincat]

Ken and Ed.

I just wanted to top this thread up with a comment/addition wrt ZDDP substitute.

Here in the Great White North  I have trouble getting oils with higher zinc content. Products such as  Valvoline (and others) that  offer   perfromance oils which include a higher Zinc treatments, are not sold in Canada. (Not sure why).

So I have had to rely on additives to top up the Zinc component in my 346 oil-pan. I use a prodcut made by Lucas Oil. It is called  Engine Break-In Oil Additive and specificlly states that it has a "ZINC-PLUS" formula.  The price of the product has sky-rocketed over the the past three years  going from 6.95 a bottle to 17.95 as of last week.  However, I get the feeling that the price is much lower south of the border...so this may be a cheaper alternative to high perfromace oils to the US folks.

I just add one of these 16 oz bottles every time I do an oil change. So far so good! I still have good a looking idler gear...;-)

Vic Brincat

[48ragtop]

This is just about the best tutorial I could have expected.   Thank you all for your generous advice and thank God for the CLC and this Forum.   Without it these cars would never be driven and enjoyed as they now can be.

Again, thanks to all. 

Now I'll get my hands dirty.

Ed Wisniewski
CLC No. 26482

[Bob Schuman]

Ed,
On your car with the 346 engine, you do not need to disturb the steering linkage to remove the pan. What Jay Friedman advised is one way to do it, but not necessary. If the pan will not slide rearward enough to come out, it is hitting the big counterweight near the front of the crankshaft. Just turn the engine a little to rotate the counterweight out of the way, and the pan will come right out.
None of the pan bolt holes go into any fluid passages, so sealer on the bolts is not needed.
Bob Schuman, CLC#254

[47bigcadillac]

here is the only shot I could find of my 1947   346 oil pan, with the Fumoto drain valve


http://cadillac.gs/engine/drain-cock.JPG

Any silicon seal will work fine on those cork gaskets. Only seal the gasket-pan side so that you can easily remove and re place the pan without having to change the gasket each time.

The drain valve works great too
http://www.fumotousa.com/