1941 timing mark is off

[kkarrer]

Hello!  I'm in the middle of a frame off restoration on my 41 6227D coupe.  (see pictures on restoration blog).  I fired up the engine last night.  The carb has been rebuilt and I've installed Pertronics ignition(12v).  Once I got the distributor stabbed correctly she fired right up.  The engine sounds great at idle or at higher rpm, BUT when I put a timing light on the dampener it appears that the timing is off by about 20 degrees.  As you face the engine as it's running (about 450rpm) the timing indicator is at about 11:00, but the timing mark is between 9 and 10:00.  If I rotate the distributor clockwise the mark will move in the right direction, but as it approaches alignment the engine will start to miss and then die.  I plan to remove the #1 plug and insert a thin rod to check the timing marks statically, but I'm pretty sure that I will find that when the #1 cylinder is at the top of the compression stroke, the timing mark on the balancer will be at about the 9:30 position.  Since the engine is running well (I haven't run it for long and don't have the radiator in yet.) My first assumption is that the balancer has "spun" back.  I've seen this before on a 1950 Cadillac engine, but this is my first go around with a flathead.  Do any of you guys have an opinion on this?  It sure was nice to hear that engine run.  It's very smooth with no valve clatter or any other unexpected sounds.  If this is just an issue with the balancer being out of position.  I can time the engine statically and use the "power carburetor" method and put my own mark on the balancer.  If all goes well, I'll get the body back down on this rascal by the weekend!  By the way, that transmission (I'd been having issues with the hydramatic) stayed in neutral and there are no leaks.
Thanks,
Ken Karrer 1941 6227D coupe

[41caddy]

YOU CAK LOOK AT THE DISTERBOR. ON MY 6109 I WAS OFF SO WAS TIMING MARKS

[vicbrincat]

Just a guess, Ken. But I would say that the distributor was installed one tooth out. But that is  usually accompanied with horrible running, backfire and host of other problems.

I would just double check the basics. Make sure the engine is on number  one TDC at the top of compression stroke. Then set the distributor down so that the rotor points towards number one plug wire. (You probably already done that....but just double check.)

Because the balancer and hub are keyed, I'm not sure if it is possible to set it incorrectly...

Vic

[kkarrer]

Vic,
     Good to hear from you.  I'll try stabbing the distributor again.  I thought that it would only go in one of two ways...that it could only be right or 180 out.  If that's not the case then I'll go back and look at my static timing steps and repeat, but try to twist a bit more in the clockwise direction.
Ken 6227D coupe 

[vicbrincat]

Ken, I appologize if this is info you already know...but I made these mistakes and learned the hard way.

WHen installing the distributor, it will rotate slightly as you install it. So you need to start the ditsribitor so that the rotor starts at a point a little ahead (or behind can't remember) the number one spark wire....but in it's final resting position the rotor must be  pointing directly to the #1 spark plug wire.

Also, notice that the oil pump shaft is groved. Take note that it must align to the distributor shaft at the bottom. It too must align  at the same time when you are positiong the distributor. If it doesn't align to teh distributors final position, it is possible to rotate the oil pump shaft using a large,  long handled flat-blade screw driver. Shine a flash light down there and you'll see teh grove. Carefull insert teh screwdriver down through the distributor hole, past the idler gear, you will see the oil pump input shaft. The idea is to guestimate where teh grove should be based on the distributors's final position.  It can be a little tricky.....but if I can do it...anyone can..:-)

Vic Brincat

[PHIL WHYTE CLC 14192]

On my 54 CDV [I know it is the OHV engine] the distributor had been put 180 deg out. The engine ran and idled, but was very underpowered. Before I found out what it was I timed it with a vacuum gauge and the timing mark was way out, but the engine ran smoothly until you prodded it a bit, then it mis-fired a bit. As it wasn't me that had installed the distributor it was a very simple problem that was very difficult to find !!
Phil 

[harry s]

Ken, The distributor can only go one of two ways, but the distrbutor stand can be a tooth or so off. I have found the way that works best for me is to attach the distributor to the stand and  install them as a unit and of course following Vic's advice about the oil pump. Good Luck, Harry

[kkarrer]

Gentlemen,
      Thanks.  I knew it could actually only go in one of two ways, but did not know that you could still get a tooth or two off.  I static timed it and lifted the island slightly while rotating the rotor back about 5 or 10 degrees.  It plopped down in alignment with the #1 plug position.  It fired right up and the timing mark is "on" so I think that should be it.  We'll see what happens when there is a load on it, but for now this will have to do.  I think I'm ready to put the body back down on the frame now.  Sure will give me some more room in the shop and I can get rolling on the steering and firewall stuff.
Thanks again,
Ken  Karrer 1941 6227D coupe

[pauldridge]

I don't see that having the distributor a tooth off would have any bearing on your stated problem.  As long as there is adequate range of adjustment movement for distributor timing, and you can move it enough to show firing with the timing mark at the proper pointer position, then it seems to me that the issue is an incorrectly placed crank pulley, although I would assume that this is keyed?

Your best bet is to determine Top Dead Center via the piston as you mentioned and compare it to your markings (you can buy an inexpensive TDC locator from sources such as Amazon:  http://www.amazon.com/Innovative-Products-America-7880-Indicator/dp/B002XMOMA2/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1328887298&sr=1-2