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engine number

Started by Hilarius, February 17, 2012, 08:51:29 AM

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Hilarius

I recently bought a 1939 Cadillac Coupe, model 39-6127.
Now, the chassis # being 8292032 is correct for the year, but the engine # 8D2079 puzzles me, and I have not been able to  locate that number,anywhere. The engine looks and appears correct for the year.
Any help anywhere??
Hilmar Schneider
Hilmar Schneider #26898
1930-162, "353", 4D-SDN-7P
1940-7567, 2D-CCP-2/4P
1948-7519X, 4D-SDN-5P
1952-6019X, 4D-SDN-5P
1973 Mercedes 107R, 2D-CCP-2P
2015 Cadillac SRX, 4D-SDN-5P

Warren Rauch #4286

 Don't panic! The number you found is the Engine Unit Number. The D is 1939 and 8 is series 61. The rest of the number is the production number of the block. So that number is correct for your car.The Engine serial number is located "on( the )crankcase just behind the left cylinder block,parallel with the DASH'.(from 1942 parts book) The number you found is parallel with the crank. Keep looking. Warren

Hilarius

Hi Warren,
what you write is probably true, generally, but on my engine there is just that one number mentioned. I had the car completely apart, cleaned, rebuilt and painted the engine and searched in vain for any other number. Could it not be a new engine, or an exchange. Who do you think I could turn to to find out. Hilmar Schneider
Quote from: Warren Rauch #4286 on February 17, 2012, 09:24:06 AM
Don't panic! The number you found is the Engine Unit Number. The D is 1939 and 8 is series 61. The rest of the number is the production number of the block. So that number is correct for your car.The Engine serial number is located "on( the )crankcase just behind the left cylinder block,parallel with the DASH'.(from 1942 parts book) The number you found is parallel with the crank. Keep looking. Warren
Hilmar Schneider #26898
1930-162, "353", 4D-SDN-7P
1940-7567, 2D-CCP-2/4P
1948-7519X, 4D-SDN-5P
1952-6019X, 4D-SDN-5P
1973 Mercedes 107R, 2D-CCP-2P
2015 Cadillac SRX, 4D-SDN-5P

Leponthaut

Warren is right,
But it's difficult (very) to find it, I have spent one day to find mine, hidden by rust.
it seems like the picture

Hilarius

Thank you, Dominique, but there is no such number on my engine. Prior to reboring, I had the block on the bench and cleaned it of any rust and remainders of old paint. It was stripped down to the cast iron and it is impossible that  I should have missed the number when I was deliberately looking for it behind the left cy
Quote from: Leponthaut on February 18, 2012, 11:32:17 AM
Warren is right,
But it's difficult (very) to find it, I have spent one day to find mine, hidden by rust.
it seems like the picture
linder bank. There must be another explanation of the mystery.
Merci et bonne chance!
Hilmar Schneider
Hilmar Schneider #26898
1930-162, "353", 4D-SDN-7P
1940-7567, 2D-CCP-2/4P
1948-7519X, 4D-SDN-5P
1952-6019X, 4D-SDN-5P
1973 Mercedes 107R, 2D-CCP-2P
2015 Cadillac SRX, 4D-SDN-5P

Warren Rauch #4286

  A new block is a possibility ,but unlikely. I checked a 1942 parts book, it asked for the engine number to be on the order for a new block. In the 50's , if you ordered a block and gave the number they stamped the new block with it. Blocks or engines for stock were to be stamped by dealer. What makes it seem unlikely to me is that the engine unit number is right. If this block was made in 1940 or later the unit number would be for the newer date. The block they were supplying in 1942 was not an exact match, it fit 1938-40.To use it on 39-40 models you had to"rebend oil gauge pipe and connect to nipple in rear top of block near the distributor support"  Blocks were likely replaced on brand new cars and if they didn't have all the information, maybe? A mistake when it was made,maybe? We may never know. Warren

Hilarius

Warren.
The oil gauge pipe connects to an outlet on the crankcase below the left cylinder bank; nowhere near the distributor support. So that makes it an original engine/substitute. The unit numer is correct, also, so it seems that whoever ordered the engine did not have or did not give the old number, or the dealer forgot to stamp the block, or the original engine was, accidentally, not numbered in the first place. These things do happen. As you said: we'll never know. At any rate I am content to know by the unit number that the engine fitted belongs to the time of manufacture of the car.
I am impressed by your thorough knowledge of these things and it induces me to venture a problem I have been having since the restoration started. Upon dismantling the steering box, I found worm, roller, bearings and races in very bad condition, severely rusted/pitted and the hardening completely gone. Plus a partly broken eccentric sleeve and all that in decades old hardened grease. I cleaned everything, sealed up the box and put oil in it and have been driving the car like that. But a complete renewal of the parts described is necessary and due, soon, I know.
Do you have any idea where I could find the parts needed, or a good used box?
The only company I could find was the Lares Corporation. They charge about $ 1000.00 for the rebuild, plus sending the steering box and column to and fro which would amount to another $ 500.00. Can you help? Hilarius
Hilmar Schneider #26898
1930-162, "353", 4D-SDN-7P
1940-7567, 2D-CCP-2/4P
1948-7519X, 4D-SDN-5P
1952-6019X, 4D-SDN-5P
1973 Mercedes 107R, 2D-CCP-2P
2015 Cadillac SRX, 4D-SDN-5P

mr41cadillac

thanks to warren the number was right in front of me. you may have to take a light wire brush. also on mine theirs a bit of fabric materical right up to edge of the number john

Brad Ipsen CLC #737

Hilarius,

On the steering gear question.  A brief look in the parts book looks like the 39-61 interchanges lots of internal parts from 38 to 40 small series cars.  It will take some time to check all of the interchanges.  The hardest part will be the broken eccentric.  It is often almost impossible to get these out without breaking them.  They are some kind of pot metal and expand and bind into the other parts.  If you manage to get them out then you need to spend lots of time sanding them down to get clearance back again.  If machine tools are available maybe there is an easier way there.  The steering gear parts do show up because people are hot rodding these cars with new front suspensions and modern steering columns.  There is hope in finding the parts.
Brad Ipsen
1940 Cadillac 60S
1938 Cadillac 9039
1940 Cadillac 6267
1940 LaSalle 5227
1949 Cadillac 6237X
1940 Cadillac 60S Limo

Hilarius

Well, thank you very much, Brad, for your expertise.
It would, of course, be very helpful to know which parts of the steering box are interchangeable with which other model cars. I think I have mentioned that I live in Berlin, Germany, so my access to interchenge manuals and used parts dealers is very limited to non-existent. So I would be very grateful if you could look that up for me.
As for the eccentric sleeve, it was as you said: the thing, being potmetal, had expanded and a piece broke out at the very first attempt at removing it. Afterwards I was very careful and did extract the sleeve mostly unbroken and sanded it down to a good fit and fixed the break with industrial glue. So that one could be reused. But the steel parts mentioned in an earlier mail worry me as they can only be replaced.
You state that the steering gear parts show up due to rodding of the cars. But where do they? Where or whom can I turn to? If you could put me on the right track, again, I'd be very grateful.
Thanks - Hilarius
Quote from: Brad Ipsen CLC #737 on February 21, 2012, 10:06:53 PM
Hilarius,

On the steering gear question.  A brief look in the parts book looks like the 39-61 interchanges lots of internal parts from 38 to 40 small series cars.  It will take some time to check all of the interchanges.  The hardest part will be the broken eccentric.  It is often almost impossible to get these out without breaking them.  They are some kind of pot metal and expand and bind into the other parts.  If you manage to get them out then you need to spend lots of time sanding them down to get clearance back again.  If machine tools are available maybe there is an easier way there.  The steering gear parts do show up because people are hot rodding these cars with new front suspensions and modern steering columns.  There is hope in finding the parts.
Hilmar Schneider #26898
1930-162, "353", 4D-SDN-7P
1940-7567, 2D-CCP-2/4P
1948-7519X, 4D-SDN-5P
1952-6019X, 4D-SDN-5P
1973 Mercedes 107R, 2D-CCP-2P
2015 Cadillac SRX, 4D-SDN-5P

Brad Ipsen CLC #737

Hilarius

I will do some more checking.  If 40 parts fit the 39 I think I have parts that are better than what you have and maybe with some luck will have some good parts to get the steering gear back to new.

Email me at brad@ipsengarage.com
Brad Ipsen
1940 Cadillac 60S
1938 Cadillac 9039
1940 Cadillac 6267
1940 LaSalle 5227
1949 Cadillac 6237X
1940 Cadillac 60S Limo

Hilarius

Brad.
Thanks for your answer. Return mail is on its way.
Hilarius
Hilmar Schneider #26898
1930-162, "353", 4D-SDN-7P
1940-7567, 2D-CCP-2/4P
1948-7519X, 4D-SDN-5P
1952-6019X, 4D-SDN-5P
1973 Mercedes 107R, 2D-CCP-2P
2015 Cadillac SRX, 4D-SDN-5P