Looking to buy 78 Eldorado Pros/Cons?

[waterzap]

Looking to buy a 78 Eldorado coupe. Anything specific I should look at?

Car is carbs, in great condition. No rust that I could see, but will look over this weekend again. Test drove, and runs smoothly. Everthing seems to work,  even the power antenna works.
Anything specific I should look at for these cars? How are they generally in terms of reliability? Any advantages / disadvantages of these models?

[TJ Hopland]

Im trying to remember your 'story'.   Are you in the USA?  Have other old cars or Cadillacs?   Have any experience with the FWD cars like Eldorado or Toronado?

What do you know about this specific car?   Has it been sitting a while?

I like the 71-78 Eldos.  Good thing about them is they are pretty much at the bottom of the value curve right now especially for a 2 door.

[waterzap]

I am in Charlotte, NC. The car is a two owner car, was in Miami before. Second owner now has had the car for about 4 years. His wife wants the car gone, too big. He loves it, she doesnt think too much about it. Wants her kids to have space to play in the garage.

Have a 76 Seville that I have been working on for about a year now. Not much FWD experience. My regular car is a Grand Marquis :-) (Panther body)

Last FWD I had was a Taurus SHO. Had understeer, oversteer, torque steer. Sometimes all at the same time. Fun car, but parts were getting difficult to come by.

Guy said he drove his daughter to school about once a week in the Eldorado. Other than that, not much driving. Recently he had the manifold gasket replaced, one new tire, brand new carb. How are parts availability for the Eldorado? Pretty much the same as the Seville? Engine and mechanical is easily available. Trim not so much.

[C.R. Patton II]

Hello Waldo

Glad to hear that you are interested in an Eldorado.

Have you joined our club. We would love to have you.

Is there a CLC Region member near you that is familiar with that era? I would have an experienced person inspect and evaluate the vehicle before I purchased. Also you mentioned that you have a Seville that you are workimg on. Are you acquiring assets, automobiles or projects. I would hate for you to become depressed and overwhelmed with cars you "like" but cannot complete.

I would like to see you happy with one car instead of depressed with a few.

[76eldo]

They are GREAT cars and the 425 engine is a very smooth and reliable engine.

Just watch out for rust, or repaired rust because many Eldo's of this vintage have rust issues.

Here's a Yahoo Group dedicated to the 71-78 Eldorado:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/big_eldorado/

If you get the car, enjoy it.

Brian

[waterzap]

Oh, and what is the thing with the CB radio in the car. Has the cadillac logo on it, but the guy does not know how it works. Was this dealer installed or come this way from the factory? Can you still use these things ?

[76eldo]

There was a CB radio option available back then. The radio was different and so was the antenna so if either was replaced with a non CB unit, it will not work.

Perhaps someone with that radio in a car will chime in here.

[R Schroeder]

I have a CB/AM/FM radio in my car. Yes you still can use them. Truckers are still using them.
There is a switch up in the right hand corner that you slide to different positions. Radio- CB.
Mine is in a 78 DeVille.
There were two different mike designs . Both hang from the bottom of the dash.  Brian is correct. If the antenna was changed out, the unit will not work.

Roy

[R Schroeder]

There is a nice one for sale here in Wisconsin.
Could use it for comparison at least.

http://madison.craigslist.org/cto/2846370654.html

[TJ Hopland]

The Eldos dont have that weird torque steer problem like typical FWD cars have.

Very similar parts situation to the Seville.   Your basic tune up and wear parts are likely in stock at your local parts store or worst case at the local / regional warehouse.   An exception may be rear disc brake parts.  I have been told by other owners that even though everyone has parts listed for the rear brakes very few actually have them in stock and then have troubles when they try to order.    The less common to wear out mechanical parts or unique to the eldo parts seem to be around.  Im getting the impression that the regular parts stores are phasing them out because they often come with several layers of dust on them and no core charge.  Most of that stuff is also handled by the Cadillac specialty vendors.   The basic body style was for Eldorado and Toronado from 71-78 so many parts can be interchanged.   As you have observed interior and trim parts for the most part are not reproduced so its used or NOS.   The cars are still pretty common and not that expensive so there does seem to be a good supply of used parts. 

The term 'new carb' scares me.  Very few people understand carbs anymore.  If it seems to be running well you may have got lucky and got one that was worked on by someone that knew what they were doing.

Like all the cars of the era that engine has a plastic covered timing sprocket.   Age and miles are not at all kind to these.   The oil pan has to be removed to properly change the timing chain and in the Eldo the transmission is in the way so its a more involved job.  I would not be afraid to buy one and it would not really significantly effect the price.  IF there is no documentation saying its been replaced I would plan on at some point pulling out the distributor out for a look down the hole at the chain and sprocket.  You cant get a great look at it but if the internals are fairly clean you can usually tell if its been replaced or how bad it is. 

Besides the rear disc brakes being a little unique and possibly more difficult to come by parts than the typical drums of the era the other odd thing about the brakes is they used a hydroboost system.  Typical cars and light trucks use a vacuum booster for the power brakes.  For some unknown reason in 76 Cadillac decided to switch the Eldo to the hydroboost.   Its not a rare system in general because its used on all diesels and some of the heavier gas trucks.  Instead of being operated off of vacuum these are operated off of the power steering system.   It uses a slightly different power steering pump and runs the fluid first through the brake unit then to the power steering.   If they are working properly they dont feel any different than the typical systems do under normal braking conditions.   Where they are different is if you push down on the pedal to the point of a normal stop and then keep pushing the pedal will go all the way to the floor.  This is normal and under this condition you should still be able to lock the brakes if needed.  It just makes it hard to diagnose if you have a booster issue or a master cylinder issue when there is a problem.  You will also get similar softness in the pedal if the engine is not running.   Overall the systems are very reliable and dont require any special attention.  More recently I have read about people having to replace the booster unit so it seems that age is catching up with them.   I had to replace the one on my 80 diesel last fall.  It developed a really odd characteristic where you would get 90% of a normal stop and when you needed to give it that last little push to make the complete stop suddenly the pedal would drop several inches which caused my response to be to push harder at which point the boost would kick back in and result in the brakes being locked up.  Another common issue with them at this age is that they leak.   It does not seem to be the sort of item that is rebuilt locally most of the shops I contacted said they send them out to one of a couple places in the USA that rebuilt them.   I got my replacement from my local Napa.  It was one of those parts I suspect they were phasing out because there was only like a $3 core charge on it.   I kept my old one and figure I can send it out to be rebuilt if needed.   If you want to read more about the systems search the web for bendix hydro boost. 

The rims, hubcaps, and valve stems are unique to these cars.   I would recommend picking up a set of stems so you have them in case you ever need them.   They are available from the Cadillac specialty vendors.  When ever you do any work to the wheels and swap things around be sure to check the clearance of the valve stem with the brake calipers.   The clearance is very close so if they are not just right the can hit the caliper.  If its real bad they will just be ripped out.  If its not too bad it just rubs a little off each turn till it rubs through and you are left on the side of the road wondering what the heck just happened to your new tires.  To correct clearance issues you just need a rubber mallet or hammer and block of wood to persuade them to follow the contour of the inside of the wheel.  The other slightly odd thing is the hubcaps grip on the outer edge of the wheel so they have to use special wheel balance weights that have an extension on them.  They were common to this era Cadillac and Lincoln.  They are called CAX.  It seems especially with the lead concerns these days that they are getting hard to find so many of us are thinking of buying our own 'set' and bringing them to the tire shop when we have work done.

These cars are hard on front wheel bearings and lower ball joints.   The bearings are now in the $200-300 range and a fair amount of stuff has to come off the car to remove the knuckle to get them pressed in.   Ball joints are not too bad or expensive to replace.  If you are thinking long term and planning on putting on some miles the GMC rv people have come up with a way to add a grease fitting to them.   This exact front end was used on the 70's factory built GMC RV's.  The basic FWD design and torsion bar suspension is very similar to what they started using on the 4x4 trucks in the late 80's so the concepts should not seem that foreign to any shop that has done GM trucks.   Have a good look at the CV boots.  They joints hardly seem to wear unless the boot goes and lets crud in them.  The boots are again available.   L and R shafts are the same length and interchangeable.   The originals on the earlier cars had a damper in one shaft but even the factory gave up on them eventually and just started putting the same shaft on both sides.

[waterzap]

Thanks guys. This has helped a LOT!!!
Going back to check over the car this weekend. Now I have some info, can get a better look in the nooks and crannies.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Waterzap: In addition to all the comments here, I'd strongly recommend you limit your search to the very best and cleanest examples. Restoration costs of one of these cars are astronomical in proportion to the value and can sprial out of control in a hurry. As 76Eldo mentioned, rust is a definite hazard on this generation Eldorado and candidates should be thoroughly examined. Interior cosmetics should be near excellent too. These are very heavy cars with a large percentage of weight sitting on the front wheels making front ends particularly wear prone- especially due to the FWD configuration which also adds complexity. Therefore you should have the front end checked out if at all possible before committing to purchase. Finally, verify proper accessory operation as again, non-functional equipment will be costly to repair. 

 

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Oh, and what is the thing with the CB radio in the car. Has the cadillac logo on it, but the guy does not know how it works. Was this dealer installed or come this way from the factory? Can you still use these things ?

The CB radio got two versions in 1978: One with 8-Track tape player; the other without. The version without tape player had the ordinary mic without display or Cadillac crest, CB channel display was built into the main unit. On the version with tape player, the radio had the old slide rule style tuner dial but the CB frequency displayed on the microphone unit which was larger and also had CB channel and squelch controls built into it. This is the mic that had the Cadillac crest and it is a 1978 only radio.

In both cases, the CB transceiver was a seperate assembly (box) which was mounted under the passenger side of the dash and had a connectors running to the head unit and to the mic IIRC.

[R Schroeder]

Pictures of the two CB/radios.

[waterzap]

Thanks for all the help guys. So in the end got the car. The CB switches on, but cannot get anything. The antenna does not go out all the way. The top has a bit of rust, which I am sure can be fixed, and a few little things here and there, but overall the car is in great condition.

[R Schroeder]

Looks pretty nice.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Two things I noticed: I believe the vinyl roof is aftermarket installed; steering wheel dates from 1984-1986+?.

Looks pretty clean otherwise. Any pics without seat covers on?

RE CB operation: Do you have the squelch turned all the way down? Also you might have to "help" raise the antenna. The CB won't work with the antenna retracted.

[waterzap]

The vinyl roof will have to be replaced anyway some time in the future. How did you see it is aftermarket?
I thought the steering wheel looked too good :-) Any pics of what the 78 steering wheel should look like? Same as the 78 Seville? For now will just keep the steering wheel, but will replace that later on too. Steering wheels are cheap and easy to find, but most of them are not in that great condition, so will have to refurbish one later one.

Scared if I raise the antenna, wont be able to get it back down for the cover. Can these antennas be fixed? Rebuilt? Replaced?
Havent taken the seat covers off, peaked underneath and looked ok. Few cracks, but not too bad.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

The full vinyl roof was eliminated after 1977 as a factory option (IIRC) and the boarder mouldings are different on your top from factory mouldings (on 1977 and older versions w/full roofs).   

The steering wheel is the same design for all models from 1977-1978.

Here's another '78 Eldo:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Garage-kept-Collectors-Clean-Antique-Low-miles-/200725134061?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2ebc267aed

*The steering wheel in this car exhibits the typical deterioration of this style wheel.

You can usually get the antenna to raise by giving it a little help by pulling it up. First make sure the radio is off and the antenna switch is in the up position. Then turn on the radio (ignition will have to be in run or accessory position) then pull up on the top of the mast as you hear the power antenna motor running.

1977/1978 steering wheels almost always have their simulated woodgrain ring (embedded in the rim itself) falling/broken off and the upper wood trim piece is also almost always broken as well. The wheels are also often cracked near where the spoke is attached. In 1979 the steering wheel was redesigned with a better designed rim wood trim that was far less susceptible to develop this problem and the new design eliminated the upper wood applique as well.

In short, good luck finding a good 1977-1978 steering wheel. They just don't exist and finding the upper wood applique will be no easier.

[d307p]

Looks very nice to me. I love the classy look of those eldorado coupes. Congratulations.