removing body from chassis on 1957 Biarritz

[57CaddyBiarritz]

Hi Folks-

I'm getting ready to remove the body of my 1957 Biarritz from the chassis and was hoping for some feedback on how to accomplish this.  Fenders, hood, engine, transmission and most of the interior has all been removed, with the convertible top and and a few other parts still remaining.

Does anyone have a method/pictures on how to lift the body off in a small garage?  Do I remove the doors as well?

Thanks,
John

[markl]

John,
First off, my only experience has been w/ a sedan, and a much earlier car at that (37 LaSalle).  In my case, I removed the doors, but think I'll leave them in place when I re-assemble.  But in the case of  convertibles, which are notorious for sagging when not supported on their original frame, I think you only have two choices; Leave the doors on, closed and latched or construct some sort of bracing frame to take their place while the car is being lifted.

For lifting, I used two eye-by-eye kevlar slings.  You can get same through Grainger (they sell as a "vehicle Recovery Strap", 20ft, $78) or from a local rigging supply company.  If your garage is open to the roof, and framed w/ trusses, your in luck.  On the other hand, if there is living space above and the garage has a finished ceiling, not sure how you could handle this.  In the former case, I went up into some of the internal bracing and inserted a 4 X 4 about 8 ft. long and perpendicular to the trusses so as to spread the load out over three or more trusses.  I had the benefit of having the renowned "Turret Top" construction, so just ran the slings under the roof at the door openings, fore and aft.  Would think you could feed the slings between the body and frame and lift at that point.

All that said, the best reply would be from someone who has actually gone through this exercise w/ exactly you car.  Maybe post a better description of what the situation is w/ your garage/work space; Roof framing (if applicable), lower cord height above floor etc.

Mark Lowery, CLC#25216

[Dave Shepherd]

This is a tough job for a first timer, proper equipment and help are primary issues, as mentioned the body should be braced pillar to pillar and side to side., once off then where is it going and how, lots of info missing for us to give you meaningful advice.

[Quentin Hall]

G'day John,
         I also have a 57 Biarritz and have done extensive metal repair work to a couple of other Biarritzs .
First of all being a convertible, it is probably a case of rust being a major problem throughout the floor and sill area. If you are lifting the body off to do rust repairs around the sills then you must be very careful that the body stays aligned with the cowl. So I would advise against removing the doors as they give you an easy reference point for alignment.
         If the body is sound and sills do not require replacing then you can build an X brace out of 1inch box section tubing that holds the body structure to the cowl , making it possible to rotate on a rotisserie. 
         Personally, I would always do sill repairs and major floor and structural repairs on the frame first.  I have seen many problems from good intentioned restorers gutting the body, putting it on a rottiserie, doing the rust and repairs and then having multiple alignment problems once back on the frame.
          You probably will need to give a clearer picture of your car,it's problems and your intentions with the restoration before we can all give a clearer  "next step". 
          Over to you. Regards. Quentin 
         

[Walter Youshock]

I would NOT remove the doors.  The bodies were stamped, painted and assembled at Fisher plant 21-Fleetwood and then shipped to Cadillac Clark for final assembly.  The entire body assembly was carefully aligned at the Fleetwood plant and convertibles had beefier cowls and other structural elements that were dependent on the doors being installed.

[57CaddyBiarritz]

Thank you for the feedback all. 

So the plan is to rottisserrie the chassis once removed from the body.  As far as the body, well, not exactly sure what we're going to do with that - the paint/body is in very good codition, though the underside will need to be sandblasted and recoated.  The plan right now is to store the body next to the garage for the time being.

The garage that I'm working in has exposed ceiling beams, so I thought about jacking up the entire car, then strapping the body to the ceiling, unbolting the body mounts then dropping the chassis while the body stays suspended.  Where and how the body gets moved from there is unknown, but I'm sure I can figure something out - my big concern is twisting or attempting to support the body in the wrong place.

Any other feedback would be much appreciated.

[markl]

John,
Once again, this is not the answer that you are seeking, but a couple of other considerations you might ponder while you wait for the person (unknown) who has done exactly what you are looking at w/ the same car.  You didn't mention this, but I would certainly remove the windshield.  Given that at some point, you will be tackling the underside body sheet metal, I think that the X-brace Quentin is advocating should be something you should plan on doing.  And if so, why not construct it and install before you divorce the body from the frame?  At some point, I would think the body will go on the rotisserie as well given that you will be doing blasting, cleaning and painting. 

One other consideration, the temporary stand for the body;  In my case, I found the perfect metal frame in a dumpster at my work.  You might check out this option even if you have to pay for it unless you have access to welding and cutting tools and a whole pile of steel.

What I used was the metal frame for a ramp intended for "Portable" classrooms.  Yeah, this is the ubiquitous steel ramp w/ a plywood deck that allows portables to conform to the ADA requirement for max slope of 1:12.  This particular one had been tossed because someone had backed into it and bent the hand railing.  I cut the hand-railing posts off completely leaving only the enough of the tubing to cover the tops of the adjustable feet (3/4" all-thread adjustors).  Then, I flipped it upside down, and attached lumber to the "feet" (1/4" steel) and drilled it to match the mounting holes in the body.  using short sections of aluminum channel, I mounted casters w/ u-bolts to what was now the underside of the frame.  Where does one come up w/ heavy duty casters for cheap? Look no further than an out-of-date safe.  Many of these were built w/ concrete panels encased in steel and therefore weigh a ton.  Often these are steel wheel casters, just what you need for concrete floors.  I realize this sounds vaguely like a description of a project from the Red Green Show.  The only thing I have left out is the Handyman's Secret Weapon, Duct tape.  My total cash outlay was $28 for the U-bolts.  You may not be so lucky, but you might want to check with a local supplier of portable buildings which should be happy to sell you a damaged ramp for the price of the scrap metal.

Mark Lowery, CLC #25216

[tozerco]

John,

I know this is a different application but you might be able to "cherry pick" a few ideas from the bits I've had to dream up for my '37 75series.

The first photo is of the internal box-section bracing that I have had to come up with to brace the body once all the timber framing that formed the "bones" of these cars is taken out - they flop around like a wet bag once this is gone! I tried to use existing holes and plates in the body to mount the bracing to - you will note the plates at the top of the cross-frame have been bolde to existing "C" pillar holes. The horizontal "ladder" bracing at the rear uses the holes in the body for the chrome belt moulding. The front-to-rear bracing just visible at bottom right uses the bottom hinge for the front door and a gusset at the base of the "C" pillar. I have to do this because:

a)    The trunk has been cut out of the body to receive the "plain back" from my Imperial limo and this cut-out weakens the whole body further. The bracing was all added before the cutting started;

b)    In these cars the doors are useless as bracing - the timber in them was more rotten that the rest of the body and the doors have no strength at all;

c)    I have to keep the body stiff enough to take it to be dipped up to the line of the roof rails.

The various plates with pre-drilled holes were made up by my local metal shop from paper patterns for about $40 and I fixed these to the holes in the body and did the (rough) welding to the stock square tubing after I clamped it in place on the plates.

The second photo is my cheap Chinese rotisserie. I'm too bloody old to crawl under a half ton chassis to fix cracks, run fuel and brake lines and fix suspension bits to so two cheap Ebay engine stands with some more 4" x 3" angle and plates made up by the local metal shop did the trick. I plan to change the pivot arrangements and the fixing plates on the angle to take the body once it has been dipped.

Don't know what bits of this will help with your later body but..........

[Glen]

Excellent post Tozerco.

I save both of those photos for future reference.

[Roger Zimmermann]

I have the impression that people are going too far with braces and so on. Look at the way the bodies were put on the frame at the factory: 4 points of attachment, that's all, and the car is more or less complete. When I did my '56 Biarritz, I had some experiences having separated the body from the frame of my '56 de Ville and '57 Brougham. These bodies are very flexible and when put on the frame again, they can be adjusted to have the proper clearance at the doors.
I did once here a subject "To restore or not" relating the restoration of my '56 Biarritz. I did the repair of the floor and rocker panels before I lifted the body as the was so much rust. Once the rust was replaced with sheet metal, I lifted the whole thing, put 4 stands under the rocker panels and lower the frame, as you can see on the pictures. If the body is "empty" (no seats, no doors, etc.) the risk of deformation is rather low.

[Quentin Hall]

G'day all,
          Roger, I agree if you are just raising or lowering the body off the frame then bracing is probably overkill however  I have recently been doing the floor repairs to a 53 conv and put it on a rotisserie that I suspended from the I beams in my shed. I welded up a cross brace to the cowl that used existing bolt holes on the body whilst leaving the doors in place . 
          When the body was rolled over upside down and despite of the bracing, it still allowed the body to flex to the degree that I could see a 1/8 inch change in the door gap at the lock end. With this in mind I say that if you do welding on a body and don't have a constant reference point to constantly refer to (ie a door gap ) then you may have later problems.  This is a particular problem with conv bodies as they have very little strength in the floors where the front seat sits, even worse after 60years of rust. Not as much a problem on sedans as the roof becomes the structural member that holds it together. 
     Also I would advise against painting a body on a rotisserie unless it is just the floors or edges. The body needs to be re fitted to the chassis and aligned to the other panels to get a good panel fit prior to paint, especially if rust repairs have been undertaken.
           Regards. Q