Trailer Queens

[Richardonly]

Gentlemen,

What is your opinion of  competeing against a vehicle trailered into local shows to compete against those who drove in?

I understand that those who own these perfect vehicles want to keep them that way and have spent considerable time and money to do so.  YET, are they in the same category to compete against driven cars?

I was quite happy to have taken 2nd place, but do feel as if the trailer queen should have been in special interest.  It is the 1910 Oakland behind my 1948 Cadillac.

Some shows prohibit trailered in cars, but that does not stop them from leaving the trailer in a parking lot and driving a mile to the event.

What do you think?

Richard

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

I am with you, and any vehicle that doesn't arrive under its' own power, after a reasonable distance of driving, should be in a separate classification.   That is, unless one lives next door.

But, competing against another vehicle with such a vast difference in age is a bit hard.

Bruce.

[KD]

Having 2 of the trailer queens, I have to add my 2 cents. If you have a very old  pristine car that is very rare and you have to travel several hundred miles to a car show and you have spent some times many, many thousand dollars and years  restoring it
and parts are almost impossible to find. I see nothing wrong with trailering it to be juded or just displayed. Can you imagine a rock chip on a $20,000paint job or a breakdown or a wreck?
I do enjoy driving our classics , but I would rather be safe than sorry.
KD CLC#26801

[Ed]

I agree with Ken. 

[waterzap]

I dont think what Bruce and Richard are saying that you should NOT be allowed to trailer your car to the show, just that a car that drives to the show should be in a different category than one that comes off a trailer. If the car is old, very pristine and very rare, so much so that you cannot really drive it, it isnt fair to hold it against a car where you can pile the family in for a few hundred mile trip. Just my thought.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

The only problem is that the number of classes would theoretically have to be doubled- a scheme that I suspect would receive little support.

As far as I'm concerned, anybody who is willing to go to such great measures to ensure their vehicle arrives in perfect condition for judging deserves whatever placement the car earns in the rankings. 

[76eldo]

I say go to the show, take your chances as far as what shows up, understand that everyone enjoys their cars in a different way and enjoy the ride there and back.

Trophies and awards are nice but the real award is driving your favorite car and hanging out with other car people for the day.

I've won, lost, and judged, and it's all pointless if you are more focused on a score sheet than enjoying the day. Just my opinion.

Brian

[R Schroeder]

Amen Brian,
That hits it right on the head. Enjoy the car, and the people.
Roy

[C.R. Patton II]

Hello Richard

I really appreciate you for broaching this interesting issue. 

As a Cadillac LaSalle Club judge I can provide my personal opinion about this subject.  I have trained under the tutelage of Paul Ayers to view each vehicle on it's own merits and standards.  The key is to be objective and fair to the car owner if the automobile was driven or trailered.

Divisions and classes for the judging of vehicles is designed to further the enjoyment of the hobby. To insure equity the CLC has Touring, Primary, Senior, Senior Wreath and Senior Crown. Study our rules and do not hesitate to ask questions BEFORE you place your car in competition.

My goal is to make all of the entries feel special because they own a Cadillac or LaSalle.

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Richard,
Welcome to the sometimes unfair world of judgeing.
#1 What in the he$$ where they thinking putting a 1910 Knox & your car in the same class???
#2 The Knox has no choice but to be a "Trailer Queen" as it's impractical & probably illegal to be on the road.
So... IMO the issue is bad classification not a trailering issue in this case. HTH, Bob

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

My opinion on this subject is that for local shows, I see no point in bringing
your "trailer queen" just to prove you can blow all of the other cars away in
your class.  Big deal -- I would not do such a thing.  What are you proving?

However, on the national level (such as our Grand National and national
AACA events) there the gloves come off.  In these cases, you bring the best
you have via trailer or not (your choice) and go for the win.  That's what
all the time, sweat and money you've invested give you the opportunity
to do.  Winning a first place is recognition from your peers for all the
effort you made to make your car "the best".

In either case, the enjoyment of the show itself, the friendships, being
able to enjoy the other cars at he show and talk with the owners is the
main reason to attend these events.  I also enjoy the judging, which I
have done for over 25 years.  You increase your knowledge every time
you do it, plus perform a service for the Club.

Mike

[76eldo]

I would like to add to my comments.

At a Grand National or large regional event, judging is an important component of the event.  If you spend many years restoring a car to exacting standards, you should be recognized.  I have been there, done that, and have the T-shirt as they say.

When I was a bit younger, I restored a 1936 Packard 120 Coupe.  The car started out as what I would view now as a rusted out parts car, but all the good parts were removed!  I bought the car in 1985 and it wasn't actually done until 1999.  I had many other Packards and Cadillacs to take to shows and they came and went, always to fund my ongoing restoration.  Slowly, the chassis was completely rebuilt and refinished, then the body, finally the interior and chrome.  Parts came from Canada, Washington State, and almost every state in the country in the days way before ebay and the internet.  It was MUCH harder to find parts back then and long distance bills were very high.

Finally in 1999, the car was done.  I drove it from Eastern PA to Warren, Ohio to participate in the 100th anniversary centennial PAC meet which was the celebration of the first Packard built in 1899.  In the first few years Packards were built in Warren, Ohio before expanding the company and moving to Detroit.

There were 3 1936 Packard 120 Business Coupes at the show, Red, White, and Blue, quite appropriate for being held the week of July 4th.  These were Packards lowest priced car in 1936, but you would never guess that by looking at these 3 cars completely restored and laiden with every accessory available that year.
At the largest Packard National Meet ever held, with over 1000 Packards present, I received a 2nd place in the very large 35-42 closed junior car class.   That was a huge accomplishment considering what i started with.

I actually drove my car, but many others were trailered.  I missed some points because my radio and heater were installed, but not functional.  When the car was judged, the judges did not deduct points for normal road dirt inside the fenders or under the car.  A car that was brought in in an enclosed trailer also took a 2nd due to an inaccurate paint color.  The car's owner was livid and his week was ruined because of this "slight".  After all, he was expecting First Place, and nothing less would do.  Remember, once the car is on the showfield, the judges have no idea how it got there.  The Packard club does have a rule that any cars judged at a National meet have to participate in at least one driving event during the week to qualify for judging.  That's a great rule.

Each club has it's point system and the people that judge each class should have specific knowledge of that era.  Incorrect accessories or wrong color or things that are chromed that should be painted result in deductions.

I was quite pleased with a 2nd and went on to win a 1st the next year at the National in Virginia.  I am relating this because it was my only experience with showing a completely restored car and actually, I was so totally consumed with detailing the car, working on the car, and obsessing about the show that I missed a lot of the activities that week.  I had the car a few years after showing it at the nationals, and wanted to move on.  it was not fun having a car that I didn't want anyone to touch, sit in, or park near for fear of damage.  Stone chips and any other wear were the enemy, and after some careful consideration, I decided to sell the car while it was still a pristine example and got almost all of my money back, which is unusual.  The car resided in a private museum for many years and was sold again for an even higher price.  No more restorations for me, and i went back to my first love, a 1976 Eldorado convertible.  The rest of the money I got for the Packard evaporated into the abyss of household bills.

My Cadillacs are all very nice drivers.  They all have one 1st, 2nd, and 3rd at various times at CLC regional shows and local shows.

I belong to a region of CLC and to the national club.  I have seen the same 4 cars judged at different shows and have seen them score completely differently.  I have also had my 76 Eldorado placed in a class from 1949 to 1979, which made little sense to me.

I think if there are going to be regional shows, like the dealer shows we have, the cars should be divided into pre-organized classes that are the same at every CLC event.  That's a level playing field.

I would automatically give a completely original car or a survivor car and special award for participating as it will not score against a restored car, but should be recognized.

I would also like to see a cut-off of maybe 15 years old and older for cars that are to be judged.  I was at a car show over the weekend and there were 2011 and 2012 Mustangs getting trophies.  That's totally absurd, in my opinion.

People have different goals and objectives and if you are interested in lining the walls of your garage with trophies and awards, you know what you need to do.  There will always be inequity in car show judging, so you need to deal with it and take the good with the bad.

I was the director of the Keystone Packard region for many years.  NONE of our monthly activities included judging or car shows.  We set up driving tours through the PA countryside, and visited historical places, always followed by a meal.  Regions should promote camaraderie and interesting family oriented events and keep the judged shows to a minimum which takes the competition and animosity out of the equation.

Brian

[Richardonly]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for the pros and cons AND totaly understand that I would NOT drive my 100 point (or is it 10???) car to an event for fear of unknown damage.  Too many dollars spent and too hard to repair AGAIN.

Just as a "heads up", this same vehicle was at a show the week before, entered against 50 "drivers" and won best of show.   Totaly deserving of it as it was the best and most pristine car there. There can be no competition against this vehicle.

If winning the trophies are not what it's about, and I agree with that, then perhaps trailer queens at "local" meets should show their car and not be judged?  What does one do with 2500 trophies?  LOL.

I certainly was quite proud to have taken 2nd place against the ONLY car out of about 1000 that was brought in by trailer.  By the way, the car does run and drive.

It is interesting to read your opinions and that is why I asked.

Thank you again, Richard

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

He who dies with the most trophies wins, or so the saying goes, in different forms

Looks like this car will keep on winning trophies until something nicer comes along, then you might never see it again.

Bruce.

[D.Yaros]

I opt for separate classes for the trailer queens and drivers.

Interesting Aside:  This year we were privileged to have one of our cars invited to the Indy 500 Celebration of Cars event.  Part of the show is doing 2 laps on the track.  More than a few of the trailer queens tried, unsuccessfully to navigate the 1/8 of a mile from the show field to the track.  While I felt sorry for them, it did bring a slight smile to my face!

[Richardonly]

I do wonder what the Oakland owner would have been thinking if interest was with a driver, such as mine, instead of the "Brass Era Cars?"

There was a special interest section, which he would have taken 1st in also, but chose to compete against the drivers.

Ok, I've written (said) my piece.

(Looney Tunes)  "That's All Folks!"

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

I once read that the failure to accumulate 400 miles between annual meets results in some sort of manditory point deduction in the ACD club.

Personally I couldn't care less about winning trophies and I'm in complete agreement with Brian, the spirit of enjoyment & celebration of the marque ranks far higher in my book than any awards my car may earn. Furthermore, I've seen some rather lackluster examples that have become senior cars simply because there was little/no competition within its particular class thereby winning by default.

[Walter Youshock]

I've never trailered my '57 to any show, but it's been trailered BACK more than once--IF it ever made it in the first place!  That's a whole other story.

Half the excitement is in the trip to and from the show.  Local shows don't seem to be too much of a challenge but longer trips are something to really think about.  Generally, I take the newer ('91) for the longer drives.  Lets face it, even cars of the '50's and '60's are a bit more difficult to drive with bias tires on today's choppy roads; single-master cylinder drum brake systems; many times no AC; vacuum wipers (it's almost positive you'll hit rain); and today's fellow distracted drivers on the phone, watching a movie in their suv, utilizing all those cup holders and refrigerated compartments--people simply DO NOT have respect for an old car on the road.  It has gotten far worse over the last 19 years I've had the '57.  From a safety standpoint, trailering may be the only way to get your car to an event.  NOBODY is going to drive a 1931 V16 400 miles to Hershey or a GN yet we all attend these shows expecting to see them.

Allowances are made during judging for the driven vs. trailered car.  The driven cars are usually the best running with all options in working condition whereas some of the trailered cars have difficulty starting or windows won't work, radios don't turn on, etc.

Let's face it, the cars we drive are kept in top mechanical shape.  If the AC breaks, we get it fixed.  If it needs brakes, we get them taken care of.  These may not be a priority on a car that is driven 20 miles a year on and off a trailer.

[Gene Beaird]

If the guy is showing up at local shows, blowing the competition out of the water, perhaps a little conversation with the owner should happen.  Something like this:

"Nice car.  Mine's the second oldest here, after yours.  I love driving my car to these events.  Lots of fun.  Say, weren't you at the show last week, too?  You took best of show at that one, too, huh?  Kind of like bringing a gun to a knife fight, huh?"  :-)

Then, certainly a conversation with the event organizers.  If one guy keeps bringing his trailered car to shows to compete against cars that are clearly drivers, perhaps the event organizers should consider some 'trailered' or 'driven' classes to keep the playing field more level, and keep the participants coming back. 

[C.R. Patton II]

Hello Gene

As I sit in the airport waiting on my flight to this year's CLC Grand National in Florida I really agree with your forum post. I too am looking forward to the great people,cars, and fun.