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78 Eldorado Timing Gear

Started by waterzap, June 18, 2012, 12:50:25 PM

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waterzap

Now that the Seville is almost back on the road, starting to think about the timing chain on the 78 Eldorado. Peeked down the distributor hole yesterday, and it is still the original chain and sprocket. Does not look as bad as the Seville, but want to change it out. Just had the suspension done. New ball joints, bushings, tie rods, springs, and the car feels like new. Once I get the timing set done, can drive the wheels off it.

I know the CORRECT way is to remove the engine. I don’t think I want to go through all that trouble just yet. So any help  to just trying to get the timing cover off?
I will do the engine in a few years probably. But if I can replace the timing set now, have one less thing to worry about.

Just looking at it, and reading up on some other posts, have come up with few steps. Books says to remove engine, so wont go there.

-   Drain oil
-   Remove fan
-   Remove water pump
-   Remove crankshaft pulley (no harmonic balancer I could see, unlike on Seville)
-   Beat in little studs in, be careful not to drop into oil pan
-   Pry timing cover off
-   Line up lines on timing gear, take off gear. Be careful not to mix up bolts. New timing set preferably Cloyes brand.
-   JB Weld or weld nuts to back of timing cover before putting back.
-   RTV ends of timing cover like crazy and hope does not leak.

And that is it?
Would it be possible to get the oil pickup out without taking the oil pan out?
Any comments?
Leesburg, AL

Viator Trudeau

RE:  78 eldo timing ear.   I posted my experience in replacing the timing gear set on my '68 eldo.  If the engine on a 78 is the 500 cu. in. its the same procedure, just about.
Go to the Cadillac Mailing List Archives and look up my post dated 1 3 2008  Eldo timing chain.,its posted there. Look it up by the author, its easiest at that month.
Viator Trudeau   Its rather lengthly so I did not send it.

waterzap

Quote from: Viator Trudeau on June 18, 2012, 01:57:08 PM
RE:  78 eldo timing ear.   I posted my experience in replacing the timing gear set on my '68 eldo.  If the engine on a 78 is the 500 cu. in. its the same procedure, just about.
Go to the Cadillac Mailing List Archives and look up my post dated 1 3 2008  Eldo timing chain.,its posted there. Look it up by the author, its easiest at that month.
Viator Trudeau   Its rather lengthly so I did not send it.

Thanks. This is a 425, but should be similar.
Leesburg, AL

TJ Hopland

You pretty much have the correct process.   I would weld the nuts on the back of the timing cover for the water pump.  I would be worried about the JB weld breaking off and the nut falling into the pan.   Nuthin left to it but to do it. 

There will still be parts of the gear and valve guide seals in the pan. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

The Tassie Devil(le)

Don't forget that you have to remove the Fuel Pump, and the Oil Pump (to get the Oil Pump drive out), but don't have to remove the Oil Pickup.   You cannot remove the Pickup by just undoing the two bolts, as there is another bolt further back, holding it to stop it from vibrating.

BUT, if any of the nylon covering the teeth has gone, then you will have to remove the engine to get the Sump off.

Actually, it doesn't take that long to remove just the engine, leaving the trans and diff in place.   But, there is one bolt that is in a dastardly position to stop even the hardened mechanic, but following the Workshop Manual to the letter will get you through it.

I did mine without the obligatory Hoist, as described in the manual, and having done mine, can have the engine out, sump off, timing gear changed, back together and back in the car, ready to start up, in a day.

Bruce. >:D

PS.   I did change the pesky bolt for a SBC Rocker Cover Screw.
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

bcroe

In a FWD with an Olds engine, you have to support the final drive & trans
when removing the timing cover (thru 1981), because the engine support
comes off.  Cad also has the drive attached to an engine mount.  I use a
chain to the frame, to keep the final drive from falling.  Pulling the engine
has a couple tricks, but it makes the rest of the work much easier.  Bruce Roe

Glen

When I did the timing chain on my 68 ELDO I found the seal at the bottom of the cover was interlocked with the oil pan.  The proper way to remove it requires the oil pan be dropped.  I was not in a position to do that so I just pulled the cover off.  It was then difficult to put the cover back on and get a good seal.  So I had lots of oil coming out until I pumped the leak full of gasket sealer. 
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

TJ Hopland

IF you dont drop the pan the trick to not destroying things is what he mentioned in the first post which is to drive the pins back into the block.  This lets the cover move up to clear the front of the pan.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

waterzap

Thanks guys. Will do a bit more research on this. I might pull the engine. Whatever I do, will take pics, maybe do a write up for the next person to come along.
Leesburg, AL

TJ Hopland

I have done it just engine and engine and trans together.    I dont think it makes much difference as far as how much work it is.  There are a few things you have to do to leave the transmission that take as much time as just pulling it all.  Of course once its out you then have to separate em but I think thats much easier to do out of the car. The last couple times I have pulled em together.   Getting the two back together I think is much easier out of the car and it give you a chance to get things nice and clean under the hood.   Also a good time to replace things like the shift shaft seal that you cant do while its in the car.

I hardly ever do serious engine work in the car anymore.  Most of the time its really pretty easy to pull an engine and its so much easier to work on them in a stand I think you can do a much better job especially when it comes to leaks since you can flip em so you dont get any oil dripping on your new gaskets / sealant.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason