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1988 Fleetwood Brougham

Started by Frank Palacio, September 03, 2012, 04:28:42 PM

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Frank Palacio

I am looking at a 1988 Fleetwood Brougham.  It says it has a 308 Oldsmobile V8 engine.  Would that be original equipment?
Thanks
Frank

Davidinhartford

The Broughams got the 5.0 liter motor in 86, so yes the 88s would have it as well.   

No more HT4100s!   Yaaa!!!   ;D

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#2
Technically it's a 307 (5.0), not 308. Only engine available in Brougham 1986-1989. 1990 had 307 (standard) or Chevy 350 (5.7) w/fuel inj. (optional). 
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Frank Palacio


TJ Hopland

The picky people will point out that the Fleetwood and Brougham were two different cars those years.   The Fleetwood was basically an optioned out Deville which was FWD by that time.  The Brougham was its own car that was basically the 1980 Deville that they just kept building relatively unchanged for 12? years. 

307 was a decent engine.  No power house but overall very reliable especially when compared to stuff like the 4100.   It was all cast iron and used a electronic 4bbl carb.  Pretty much the engine was just like the rest of the car, early 80 tech which was only slightly updated from the 70's.   Oddly the chokes were still air heated and was the most common failure I had seen on those engines.   My experience is the Oldsmobile engines tend to run cool when they get some miles on them so it does not take much to keep the choke from working properly.  Choke starts not working and engine runs rich.  Rich plugs up the cat converter and at that point it starts and idles nice but has horrible MPG and absolutely no power.   New cat and an electric choke conversion and they are usually good to go for many more miles.

By 88 it was only the Brougham and the full size wagons that got that engine.   Before that the RWD G bodies (Cutlass, Grand Prix, Regal) got them also.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

One better- lunatics like me will also point out it was called "Fleetwood Brougham" until 1986; "Brougham" from 1987-1992. Plus you had the d'Elegance option. Then "Fleetwood" or "Fleetwood Brougham" for the restyled 1993-1996. 

Then you have the FWD Fleetwood (Coupe & Sedan), Fleetwood 60 Special (Ext wheelbase), Fleetwood d'Elegance and 60 Special throughout the years 1985-1993. That doesn't include the Fleetwood 75 (1985-1987) FWD limousine jokemobile- sorry 85-87 75 owners- for a limo, it was a joke and a 4100-powered joke at that.

With all these Fleetwoods, even the dealers got confused. Imagine trying to explain all this to the customers. 
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Series75

and it all ended in 1998-1999 with the Fleetwood Limited.   At the 'grand national in Detroit I asked Bob Lutz and other Sr Exec's if they ever saw a day when the FLEETWOOD name would reappear on a Cadillac?  They all answered the same way,  "No, it's over."   Tom CLC6866

Frank Palacio

So in what year did the Fleetwood or Brougham change from RWD to FWD?

936CD69

Fleetwood Brougham = 1977 thru 86. d'Elegance option all those years
Brougham RWD 1987-92, also had d'Elegance, still built at  Detroit Clark Ave until early 88 MY, then Arlington TX
Fleetwood FWD 1985-88, CB model 85, 87, 88, option package on CD deville in 86 only
Fleetwood FWD d'elegance 85-88, FWD
Fleetwood Sixty Special (CS69) 87-88 5" wheelbase stretch on CB69 by Hess and Eisenhart @ Madison Michigan plant
Fleetwood 75 Limousine (CH 23 or33) 85-87, 8 passenger, Formal very late 85-87 7 passenger w/divider and 45/45 front leather buckets and console. Writing Auth Manual, begging for any info on where they were built, and by whom. They had standard CD69 to the rear of the front doors and CD47 bodies behind the lock pillars
Fleetwood 89-92, Sixty Special option (CS69) with 22 way power seats
Sixty Special CB69 93 only, Ultra seating package like 89-92. Did not have Fleetwood nameplate anywhere
93-96 DW69, V4S option Fleetwood Brougham, all Arlington cars. Died b/c Tahoe and Suburban were uber popular
all 85-93 C cars built on their own assy line at Lake Orion MI, ASC, Cars and Concepts, H&E all did off line mods at local plants
Craig Brillhart CLC# 26217
1993 Sedan deVille Spring Edition Carmine Red White Top-SOLD!
1993 Sedan deVille Spring Edition Triple Black
CLCMRC Benefactor #302

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#9
Quote from: Frank Palacio on September 03, 2012, 10:13:52 PM
So in what year did the Fleetwood or Brougham change from RWD to FWD?

Craig did an excellent job of listing all the Fleetwood models from 77-96.

In a nutshell, the Fleetwood Brougham & Brougham were RWD from 1977-1992 and were pretty similar with different powerplants depending on year. One restyle in 1980. To keep it simple, if it did not have the word "Brougham" in the model name, they were all FWD from 1985-1992.

In 1993, the last restyled large-body RWD Cadillac was introduced which was either called a "Fleetwood" (base) or "Fleetwood Brougham" (upgrade) which sort of carried on the previous d'Elegance upgrade for the Fleetwood Brougham/Brougham.  The Fleetwood/Fleetwood Brougham ran 1993-1996.

To prevent confusion between FWD and RWD cars in 1993, the FWD car was just called "60 Special".

Clear as mud?  ;D

*If I recall correctly, all production limousine models were built in a special section of the old Clark Ave plant until they ended in 1987.

A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

TJ Hopland

Maybe this is why they went to the three letter models?   Even they were confused?
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Series75

So essentially the Cadillac gasoline powered RWD Fleetwood, Fleetwood Broughams, Broughams were produced through 1985
All 1985 - 1999 FWD Fleetwood, 60 Special, Fleetwood Limiteds were Cadillac powered
All other had Chevrolet, Oldsmobile powertrains including all 93-96 RWD's

Eric, Cadillac halted production of the 75 series limousines and sedans at the end of the 1985 model year. Tom clc#6866

936CD69

Eric, thanks for simplifying my rambling list!

Tom, technically the 77-84 limos were not designated Series 75, but simply Fleetwood Limousines. They were produced by Cadillac in Detroit. When the fwd deVille/Fleetwood came out in April of 84, they produced a 24" stretch and called them Series 75 Limousines once again. The formal version was finally built late in 85. The CH23 and CH33 were built through the 87 model year in very limited numbers.

Craig
Craig Brillhart CLC# 26217
1993 Sedan deVille Spring Edition Carmine Red White Top-SOLD!
1993 Sedan deVille Spring Edition Triple Black
CLCMRC Benefactor #302

Series75

So true Craig, in fact my 1961 is really a series 67.  Recently someone wrote on an ad for a 1987 Series 75 and mentioned that these cars were outsourced to a Master Craftsman company in Detroit for 1985-1987 limos and sedans, true?  Making the 1985 RWD's the last limos made in the Clark plant?

936CD69

Tom, after a year's research, I still don't have a clear answer on who or where the stretch was done on the 85-87 series 75. I believe it would have been near Orion. I do have documentation that  Hess and Eisenhart built a new plant in Madison MI, near Orion Assembly, to do the stretch on the 87-88 Sixty Special. And yes, the 84 Limousine was the last produced in Detroit.

If I could travel back in time, my first destination would be Clark Ave, and the Fleetwood body plant. I would love to have seen them produce the cars from start to finish. I have yet to see even a few pictures taken during assy.
Craig Brillhart CLC# 26217
1993 Sedan deVille Spring Edition Carmine Red White Top-SOLD!
1993 Sedan deVille Spring Edition Triple Black
CLCMRC Benefactor #302

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#15
Quote from: Series75 on September 04, 2012, 06:21:03 PM
So true Craig, in fact my 1961 is really a series 67.  Recently someone wrote on an ad for a 1987 Series 75 and mentioned that these cars were outsourced to a Master Craftsman company in Detroit for 1985-1987 limos and sedans, true?  Making the 1985 RWD's the last limos made in the Clark plant?

Internally Cadillac began designating the limousine body cars "67" in 1959 although outwardly they were still referred to as Series 75s in all other manner of speaking.

Craig is correct, 1984 was the last large RWD in-house, production Cadillac limousine. The Series 75 designation was revived for the 1985-1987 models which were HT 4100 powered FWD cars. Incidentally the last Series 75 cars were the same length as a 1977-1992 RWD standard Cadillac.

**And while we're on the subject - I've been trying for years to correct an error the "Engine Chart" in the CLC Directory- which lists the engine as being "368 FI but not V-8-6-4" for the 1982-1984 Limousine/Formal Limousine. This is absolutely incorrect. The engine was the 368 V-8-6-4. However the V-8-6-4 plaque was eliminated from the front fenders after 82 and the MPG display was eliminated from the dash.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

936CD69

220" overall length on a 134.4" wheelbase..actually 1" shorter than a Brougham!!
Craig Brillhart CLC# 26217
1993 Sedan deVille Spring Edition Carmine Red White Top-SOLD!
1993 Sedan deVille Spring Edition Triple Black
CLCMRC Benefactor #302

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute