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1941 Hydraulic Lifter Noise HELP.

Started by kkarrer, September 13, 2012, 10:12:20 AM

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kkarrer

Guys, I'm still working on my 41 6227D coupe and the lifter noise that just won't go away.  The engine is original to the car.  I was told that it was rebuilt and from what I could see when I had it out of the car and judging from the compression etc. that would appear to be so.  However when we started it up ( it starts very quickly and easily) we could hear what I and several good mechanics I know, identified as lifter noise.  I remembered seeing gunk in the feeder line leading to the valley under the intake manifold and I began to wonder if the rebuilder had bothered to really clean the lines that feed the lifter bodies and if they'd taken a short cut or run out of money and not bothered to replace or clean the lifters.  I removed the intake and found  that the lines were in fact dirty as were the brass attachment fittings.  I cleaned the lines and fittings and replaced all 16 of the upper lifter assemblies (everything except for the lifter bodies) with new parts from Terrill Machine.  I also cleaned the 4 lifter blocks and ran them through an ultra sonic.  I oiled the parts and installed them, replaced the engine oil with SAE 30 Valvoline and fired up the engine.  The noise was a little less, but it's still there.  I was unable to fill the lifter bodies with oil as the upper part of the assembly would not compress enough to get the lifters back under the valves.  So I took some of the oil out so that the plungers would compress.  I was told that the lifters would fill once the engine was started and run and that makes sense me, but now I'm wondering about that.  Have any of you encountered this?  Any suggestions would be appreciated.  Going through the process of removing the intake and reinstalling those lifters with the heads and valves in place is no fun. Also, I ran a pressure check at the fitting that feeds the line that runs from the front of the block to the lifters and the pressure was 30 lbs the same as the oil pressure at the rear fitting that goes to the oil presure gauge.
Thanks,
Ken Karrer 1941 6227D coupe

LeRoy DeVol

#1
Ken, I am surprised that you are having problems with your valve lifters. I have worked on many of these engines and with all the work you have done you would not expect to have the problems you are having. when the engine is new the valve seats & valves are at a certain distance from the camshaft . It could be when the engine was rebuilt the valve seats were replaced and the valves are riding to high with to much clearance to the camshaft. I am not sure what this clearance should be but i was told it should be 3 inches. If this is your problem there may be spacers for your lifters to close the gap, or you may need to remove the valves, grind the valve seats to close the gap. I am hoping the problem is simpler then i described. There is one more thing you could do if this is your problem. Install solid lifters in place of the hydraulic lifters which would be adjustable. I did this on my 47 Cad. and the valves were quiet and i believe i got more HP. On the General Discussion Forum there is a posting about someone who rebuilt a flat head engine and he got his solid lifters from "flatcaddy.com- kevin perrault".

Lee DeVol

harry s

Ken, I fill the lifter body about half way to the hole in the side. When the engine starts there will be a momentary ticking and then goes away. When you checked the line pressure was it on the lifter side of the oil filter? If so it and it is 30# I think the next step is to do the cam to valve stem measurement. One thing that makes it a little easier and quicker is to remove the exhaust manifolds as an assembly. The adjustment is to take a micrometer measurement and if the valve is too long remove the material from the stem and if too short, obviously replace the valve and measure again. It is a royal pain to go through  a second time. For replacing the lifters I found a spackle knife that was just the right width and it made the job a little easier. Good luck,    Harry
Harry Scott 4195
1941 6733
1948 6267X
2011 DTS Platinum

harry s

Ken, One other quick thought. Were the upper valve spring retainers installed?   Harry
Harry Scott 4195
1941 6733
1948 6267X
2011 DTS Platinum

LeRoy DeVol

#4
Ken, One thing i forgot to mention, a friend of mind had a similar problem with a later model engine and about the time he was going to replace his lifters someone told him to check his fuel pump. Your fuel pump runs off your cam shaft, and the lever that operates the pump has a spring that keeps the lever in contact with the cam. If the spring breaks or is missing the lever will float and make lots of noise much the same as a lifter. Before you do anything else i would check this. By the way he found a broken spring & after replacing it, the noise went away.

Lee DeVol

LeRoy DeVol

Ken, Have you had a chance to check your fuel pump spring? This may not be your problem, but let me know what you find.

Lee DeVol

kkarrer

Lee,
     That's definitely not it.  Fuel pump is new and the noise is coming from the lifter area.  I think they've finally primed themselves...took forever, but the car is in the upholstery shop now where we've been on  it for a week.  Can't start it up in there, so I'll have to wait until I get it back to my shop.
Thanks for asking.  I've got my fingers crossed.
Ken Karrer 1941 6227 D Coupe

joeceretti

I know this is an old topic. Just wondering what the outcome was.