Assist in Ft Worth Tx?

[Series75]

A 1966 60 Special is in my sight and checkbook.  My only heistation is the repaint on the rear 1/4 back.  Need a club member assist to see if the damage was rear window rust out.  Car in Ft Worth but originally a West Virginia car so only seeing is beleiving.  Can anyone take a moment to look?   Tom in NJ # CLC6866

[C.R. Patton II]

Hello Tom

Glad to hear you are in the market.

I hope you are aware of the condition prices for 1966 Cadillac 60 Special

#6-$800.      #5-$2200.      #4-$4000.       #3-$8200.        #2-$13000.        #1-18000

If this is year and model you desire make sure you get the MOST for your dollars.

[Series75]

Thank you.  The car is depicted as a 1 minus 2+.   If there is anyone in the Dallas Ft Worth area that has the time to look this 66 Fleetwood over it would sure be a big help.  Thanks for your consideration.    Tom CLC#6866

[Eldorado Tex]

Wish I saw this earlier on, I just got back from DFW area yesterday. I may go back soon, so if no one else looks at it sooner than I'd be willing.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Tom: I had a peek at the car that I'm sure is the one to which you are referring. Here are my thoughts for whatever it may be worth:

#1 It's just the base 60 Special, not the more desireable Brougham (with fold-out picnic tables, footrests, reading lamps & vinyl roof)

#2 Fresh undercoating visible on front wheel opening mouldings.

#3 Screws in wood applique' on door panels: LF door has 1; RF door has 1 which is chrome (different from others); both rear doors have 2 screws. I have no idea if screws are correct on these panels but the fact than one of them is chrome raises a question. If screws do not belong at all, that's even worse. 

#4 Right rear quarter panel, right sail panel have definitely been refinished in a substandard manner. I believe the right rear door was also refinished at the same time. These areas are much less glossy than elsewhere. Since this car does not have the vinyl top, I doubt rust at the base of the roof was the reason for this work. Nor should it have been necessary for the shop to respray the entire quarter panel if that had been the case. Therefore, I believe the car had some collision repair done at some point. And if poor finish quality can be detected in photos, it will look 20x worse in person.

#5 Air Conditioning has been retrofitted to R134a and seller does not indicate whether it's in working order- which can be costly on these early Climate Control systems.

#6 Radio is stated to be inop- will require partial dash removal

#7 Rear of the car appears to be sitting low- possible level ride issue, need new air shocks or both.

#8 Transport from TX to NJ will be at least $1,000- 1,500.

In sum: While the car appears to be a pretty nice car overall, there are a number of question marks. And in my experience, what you see in pictures is usually just the surface. And frankly, any indication of fresh undercoating terrifies me. The radio does not work, the air probably doesn't, God knows what else, the seller is a dealer and the price is $15,500- which for that kind of money, the car should be near perfect with none of these issues.

As nice as they are, 65-66 60 Specials are just not in big demand- no disrespect to any 60 S owners or their partisans. From where I stand $15K is entirely too much greenery for this example- given the above and I certainly would not grade it condition #1-/#2+ or anything close. From what I can see here, I think you can do much better for a lot less.

My 2 cents.

Eric

[C.R. Patton II]

Hello Tom

I really appreciate the assessment that Eric provided. He was very honest and detailed. He exemplifies the generosity and kindness of our club members.

There is a member in the Motor City Region that has 1964 Cadillac Fleetwood 60 Special for sale if that model interests you.

[Series75]

Thanks for the input.  I'm traveling in Ireland and have not been on-line all that much.  I agree there are some flaws on this car an wish the price was closer to $11K.  The repair Eric mentions is primary concern, thanks.  Pictures are so difficult to judge a car.   I have a 66 Brougham, that has some minor rot on the corners of the rear window and the trunk floor.  Essentially the cost of repair / repaint of the vehicle is weighed against just getting a better one.  I would migrate the Brougham goodies to the 60 Special and don't really care about the seriel number reflecting its not a Brougham.  I have a new SMS correct vinyl top.  My kids were young when the wife used this as an everyday driver and object to my selling the car.  Its a question of what I want to spend the money on.
Relative to the screws in the wood, they are supposed to be there.  The ride height is correct, as there were 2 settings mentioned in the service manual.  My black brougham actually sat just like that when I got it in 1982.
Fact of the matter is this 60 special does appear to be a real 36K mile car.  I have a 62 60 special with 37K miles, no documentation to support but slide behind the wheel, take her out and you know it does.   Wish someone in Dallas Ft Worth could check this out for me.  Tom CLC#6866

[okccadman]

Hey Tom,  I know what you mean.  When I bought my 1967 Sixty Special out of an estate where all documents had been lost, I knew the 13000 miles shown were correct despite some old body work and a complete repaint.  You can tell when you drive them.  I am about 200 miles from DFW and if you can't find anyone else to help, I could probably get down there on a Saturday or Sunday to take some pics for you and check it out for the cost of fuel.

Jim Jordan
Oklahoma City, OK

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

  I agree there are some flaws on this car an wish the price was closer to $11K. 

I agree $10K- 11K seems the right money for the car, all things considered. If there was no body or paintwork with all accessories in working order, then perhaps the asking price would be more in line. I'd sure like to know the story behind that undercoating. The car does have an exceptional interior going for it and of course, the best color- black. 

I just checked, OCPG lists identical values for both the '66 60 Special and the Fleetwood Brougham. This hardly squares with reality IMO. The Brougham is a better appointed car and I feel there should be ~ $2K difference between the two models in #1 condition.

Good luck in your negotiations. 

[Series75]

Eric,
So you are referring to some overspray on the front 3/4 shots where you can see the rear of the front wheel well?  That may just be dress up, what else could that mean. 
So this is a West Virginia car now in Texas.  I feel pretty good about the rear window and trunk now that I realize there are not major stains in the trunk lining right at the intersection of floor pan and wheel well. 
The paint on the r/r quarter and r/r door do appear less brilliant and deep a reflection.   
On resale value between Brougham and 60 Special.  Price guides are great but they don't buy cars and I'm not seeing alot of people buying either one of these (or for that matter any year) in this crap economy.
Lets hope what we've got is worth something when we want to part with them.  But this could resemble the housing market.  It could turn to a buyers market as inventory floods it. 
Tom CLC6866

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

You're starting to sound like me: "Ya- books are great but books don't write checks!". Ha!

Re: The undercoat overspray. Yes, could be "wheel well dressing" to doll it up for the photo shoot but whenever I see that, red flags go up. It's just my default instinct kicking in- particularly when it's in conjuction with a seller who's also a pro.