Looking for opinions

[Landyachtcaptain]

I recently purchased a '76 Eldorado and have been going through the mechanics to make it a dependable driver. I know that it sat for ten years so I expect some gremlins to awaken. A couple of times it has not started. The engine turns over and over but no light off. Then, if I leave it for a while  and usually jump it from running the battery down it has fired right up. This led me to believe I was flooding it. Well, it did it again and now won't start up.  I have tried starting fluid, leaving it alone, sweet talking and everything else. It has been three days so it's not flooded. There is gas getting to the carb. I'm thinking an ignition problem but I have changed plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and it was running like a champ. Would a distributor give you a warning like this? I know the coil won't. Any help is appreciated.

[Gene Beaird]

Usually, and I say 'usually', because it might not be the case every time, a failing distributor will wait until it gets hot to shutdown, leaving you stranded somewhere on the road, or stuck in a parking lot not being able to start up after stopping for an errand. 

I've rarely seen those cars flood cold.  If anything, you may not be getting enough gas to it initially.  Then, when things sit a while, the gas vaporizes enough to light when given a little spark. 

If it didn't start with the starter fluid, though, I'd start looking at electrical issues.  Start at the plug and work your way back to the battery from there.  Are you getting a spark at the plug when you turn the engine over?  If so, is the timing right?  A bad timing chain can make the timing just bad enough to not start consistently.  If not, then you have an intermittent spark issue.  That could be almost anywhere, but some places to check are:

Ground cables
Ignition switch
Coil
Control module in the distributor


You have replaced the fuel, right? 

[curly]

Start with the simple things.  Pull 1 or 2 plugs, see if they are fuel fouled.  They may be new, but if the carb has problems, they could foul quickly.  Bad enough that starting fluid won't help.
x2 on replacing the fuel. I hope you are not trying to run it on 10 year old fuel!

If those things check out, next thing to do is to check for spark. If no spark, check for power at the dist cap 'Bat' terminal, key on.  Use a test light or volt meter. If that is good, then put a test light on the 'Tach" terminal on the cap, crank engine, watch to see if the bulb flickers.
Note: You will see the bulb will dim when you begin to crank the engine. This is normal, you want to see it dim AND flicker. The flickering is the module switching the coil ground on and off.
Also, if the module and coil are good, this test might burn out the test light bulb unless you are using a heavy duty bulb. A volt meter averages the readings, so isn't a good choice for this test.

T Lewis

[R Schroeder]

On a car that has sat that long, I would be checking that the choke is working right.
Could be gummy, or not working at all. Use some carb clean to clean the thing up.
It should close when you trip the gas pedal , then open about .140 after it starts. Within about 5 minutes or less it should be wide open. Could be everything is good , but you just dont have a choke working right. Leave air cleaner off to watch how it works.
Roy

[Landyachtcaptain]

Thanks everyone. I bought it from a guy that initially took it out of storage so I have no idea if he drained the tank. That thought has crossed my mind. I have put a full tank in it. As far as plugs I changed them all and only on eras fouled on the number five cylinder. I did a spark test today by pulling a wire off and seeing if it would arc onto a metal piece of the engine when cranked and it did not. I'm thinking a coil but I've always known them not to give any warning when they fail. Like I said I expect to have some gremlins. I'll try some volt meter tests and hopefully narrow this down. I'm up for any and all suggestions though. Thanks for the replies.

[76eldo]

The coil is in the distributor cap.  Do you have another car you can borrow the cap from?

Did you check the cap and rotor?  Fuel pump?  Getting lots of gas to the carb?  Clogged fuel filter?

Brian

[Gene Beaird]

Bad gas has a definite smell to it.  It's hard to describe, more like turpentine than gas.  Mix a little water in with it, and it gets very foul.  Unfortunately, it's not a definitive test, as bad-smelling gas can still run well.  If the carburetor and/or gas tank smells like turpentine, though, it's probably a good sign you're dealing with old gasoline.

[Landyachtcaptain]

So, apparently I have some issues. I pulled the coil off and tested it and no resistance. Put a new coil on it and still got no light off. I pulled off the cap and the rotor is burnt all the way through. I just put a new cap and rotor on this car and the old one didn't look half as bad as this brand new one does after one day of driving. Now I'm stumped. I could get a new rotor but it will probably just fry this one too unless it was the old coil that ruined my new rotor.

[curly]

Rotor burn through can be caused by high Resistance in the secondary wires. (Plug wires) That voltage has to go somewhere, and it  cannot get through the wires, it will burn through the rotor to get to ground on the mechanical advance.
Make sure you get a quality rotor, not a pep boys or Auto zone special.
Coil didn't ruin your rotor, it has plenty of Juice, just can't get it delivered.

T Lewis

[Landyachtcaptain]

Well, I put a new control module on and it fired right up. The new rotor looks fine after a day of driving. I guess the old coil caused the burn through of the old rotor and module when it went bad. Anyone ever heard of this happening?

[bcroe]

Been sitting 10 years?  After you solve the above, better go through the
brakes.  I would change all the cylinders, calipers, and hoses, and any lines
showing some rust.  Change ALL the other rubber hoses, the injector seals
if fuel injected, and the tires.  good luck, Bruce Roe

[Aaron Hudacky]

Sean,

I've had to HEI modules go bad; one on a 78 deVille and one on a 79 deVille.  Neither had been sitting and neither had other areas of the ignition that were high mileage or worn. Sometimes the module just goes bad.  Fortunately they are very cheap and easy to find, so it pays to keep one in the car if you have the distributor design that allows replacement by just removing the rotor.  My 79 was like that, but on the 78 I had to pull the distributor and remove a roll pin for the distributor drive gear to disassemble the distributor before I could remove the module. 

[TJ Hopland]

The burnt up rotor would most likely be caused by someone assembling the coil into the cap incorrectly.   The center contact goes in first then the rubber washer then the coil.   I have seen people put the washer in first, when that is done the contact does not stick through the cap so the rotor ends up riding on the plastic which means the spark first has to jump from the contact to the rotor which will destroy it very quickly.     Also some of the newer coils have a ground wire rather than the whole body being grounded like the older ones.  IF this is the case make sure the ground wire is attached to the screw with the ground bar contact on it. 

Hopefully you used a premium brand module.  Something like a AC Delco,  MSD, Accell,  Standard, ect....  They were all pretty much the same 75-80 for any GM so you dont really have to look up a specific application.  The number of terminals is about all you have to get correct.   Avoid brands like Wells or any of the store type brands that sound cheap like parts pro or whatever.   It ain't worth walking home to save $20.   The good ones tend to be in the $50 range.  Make sure you clean the mounting surface, brake clean works well.   Check the contacts in the harness, if they are suspicious you can release the terminal from the plastic body and polish them up then snap them back into the body.   Install the new module with the white goop (heat transfer grease).    Same thing goes for cap and rotor.   The terminals should not be silver colored or loose.   They should be solidly molded into the cap and a gold color.   Again since almost all these were the same you can often go into the 'high performance' section of most stores and pick up either a MSD or Accell 'kit' that seems to be a decent quality.   The store brand ones I have got recently have been complete garbage. 

[Landyachtcaptain]

Great stuff guys! Thanks. I love this forum.