1968 Eldorado; what should I look for?

[Rhdfuryiii]

Hi All, my first post on this forum .. hopefully not my last.

I'm looking at a 1968 Eldorado to buy.  There is a car available not far from me, which seems to be complete and reasonable BUT seems to have significant rust under the vinyl roof .. particularly around the rear window.

If the rust is repairable .. what other show-stopper parts on this specific car are hard / expensive to obtain (remembering I'm in Australia)? eg. FWD-specific parts like CVs, transmission, etc?  Headlight mechanisms?  Electric windows? etc?

I'm not too fussed if the non-essential gadgets don't work, but I'm wondering what essential mechanical parts might cost me an arm-and-a-leg if they are not working?

Thanks in advance ...

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Welcome to the world of rust under the vinyl roofs.

If you can actually see the rust there, then it is going to be a big job to repair the area.

You will most probable end up replacing the whole section from the boot lid channel to, and including, the rear window surround, and then possibly the top of the windscreen.

The replacement part will have to either be custom made, or sourced from USA, typically from an Arizona Wrecking yard.

The use of Vinyl as a roof covering was one of the worst things that any car maker did, and putting the foam padding under the vinyl was the totally worst thing.   It might have been okay as a styling thing, but as an operational thing, no.

As for the other parts you mention, it will be the same as looking at any other vehicle.   The Transmission is a variant of the ever-reliable TH400, and the CV Joints are STRONG, but check the rubber boots for splits and holes.   If they are okay, then they should be good.   The FWD parts of the car were over-built, and will last a long time, but if the engine is leaking oil from the timing cover, Crankshaft Rear Main, or gaskets, then the engine has to come out, as the sump cannot be removed as in a RWD vehicle.

Others will come in on stuff that I haven't mentioned.   BUT, rust is horrible, especially in the roof, and as the water gets in, it drips down onto the floor, and can rust out that area as well.

Bruce.

[Glen]

Check the front wheel bearings, they are hard to get and are expensive.   The brake calipers, master cylinder and booster are one year only.  There are work arounds if you need to replace those parts. 

Last I checked the drive axles are still available with the CV joints for a reasonable price.  If you have the original right side drive axle check the damper in the center to be sure it does not wobble as the axle turns. 

[Gene Beaird]

Doesn't the 68 also have some unique brake parts?  Like the front calipers and master cylinder/vacuum booster?  I'm not certain, but remember something to that effect.  Replacing those parts is difficult these days.

[Rhdfuryiii]

Welcome to the world of rust under the vinyl roofs.

If you can actually see the rust there, then it is going to be a big job to repair the area

Unfortunately I've previously had the pleasure of repairing the roof on a Phoenix (aka Fury) hardtop which was inflicted via a vinyl roof.  I'm reasonably happy that given enough time I could do it ... but what concerns me is a lot of the Cadillac-specific and FWD-specific stuff in the Eldorado .. but it's also the reason it appeals to me!   Oddball and cool!!

[joeinbcs]

I have a '67 with disk brakes and I believe the rotors are specific to the '67 with that option and all '68's.
Also, I have some rust in the driver side floor pan (the only rust anywhere in the car).
I haven't determined how/why this rusted, but I haven't found a replacement floor pan.  They're widely available on Ebay and other places for most cars, but not this one.  Anybody have any thoughts on why I have rust there and no place else...please let me know.  Could it be blocked drainage from the evaporator?
I've heard that the horizontally mounted rear shocks are hard to source, but someone mentioned that the steering damper (which is available at some vendors) can be used.  If anyone can confirm this, please do.
As for the specific car you mentioned, I wonder if you might not be better finding a "slick top" car here in the States and shipping it over.  It seems that most were made with the vinyl top, but Slick tops show up regularly on Ebay and other places.  Some people like the vinyl, but to my eye it distracts from the beauty and purity of the design, especially in the rear window area.  Interestingly, I was talking to Wayne Kady (one of the designers of the car) at the Louisville Concours d'Elegance in October.  He brought a triple black '67 that he had restored himself.  When I asked him about why he put a vinyl roof, he just said it was what was done back in the day.  His car won "Best in Class, Post-War Cadillac", so it certainly didn't hurt him in the judging!
The slick-top car is mine, the vinyl top car is Wayne Kady's...just for comparison...

[Glen]

I've heard that the horizontally mounted rear shocks are hard to source, but someone mentioned that the steering damper (which is available at some vendors) can be used.  If anyone can confirm this, please do.

I think I was the one that mentioned the steering damper would work.  I got that for another forum and have not tried it myself. 

I disconnected the horizontal shocks on my 68 ELDO with over 300,000 miles on it to test them.  They seem to be good.  The reason I did that was because I had a clunk sound coming from the rear of the car.  It turned out to be a loose body mount. 

While looking at the design of the horizontal shocks.  I cant figure out exactly what they are supposed to do. 

Glen

[Forgiven1989]

The brake master cylinder started leaking on my 68.  I had to take it to NAPA for them to send to Cardone in Pennsylvania to be rebuilt since you can't buy one anywhere.   Another problem is the front motor mount. It also had to be sent in to Steele rubber to be revulcanized.  The 68 is an expensive year to own because of so many one year items. You better look it over good before you commit to buying it.  Australia is a long way from the US.

[Rob Troxel]

The horizontal shocks are there to help stabilize the rear beam axle under hard braking and maneuvers.  Not that we would drive the cars this way but it helps.  There were some earlier Jeeps set up this way as well.  Someone is making these shocks again for under 100 bucks a piece and they are a worthy investment.  I am not aware that the steering damper will work.  Would think that the valving rates might be different.  Glen>>can you tell me how big a deal it is on those body mounts to change?

Agreed that the slick tops have lots less rust in the top and rear window area.

[Glen]

The horizontal shocks are there to help stabilize the rear beam axle under hard braking and maneuvers.   

Glen>>can you tell me how big a deal it is on those body mounts to change?

I assumed it was some type of stabilization, but in what plane?  The leaf springs should keep the axle from moving fore and aft.  The shock connects at a point very close to being in line with the axel that it would not prevent rotation of the axle during braking.   

I can’t answer your question on the body mount because I only tightened the bolt.  I have not replaced one yet. 

[Rhdfuryiii]

The brake master cylinder started leaking on my 68.  I had to take it to NAPA for them to send to Cardone in Pennsylvania to be rebuilt since you can't buy one anywhere.   Another problem is the front motor mount. It also had to be sent in to Steele rubber to be revulcanized.  The 68 is an expensive year to own because of so many one year items. You better look it over good before you commit to buying it.  Australia is a long way from the US.

Ouch .. Not really what I wanted to hear .. But I'm no stranger to weird stuff.  My right-hand-drive Fury has odd steering parts which must be rebuilt rather than replaced .. Same with my right-hand-drive Javelin.
I'm still interested in the Eldorado. The more I read about it, the cooler I think it is.

[Rob Troxel]

Glen,

You are right on the function, the Horizontal shocks help moderate the immediate  for and  aft torque on the beam axle. Helps to keep the tires in firm contact.  The single leaf spring on each side does degrade in tensile strength (at least on my 68 Eldo it did) and the car sagged noticeably.  We added a Moog 3 spring leaf set up on each side to return the ride height within specs and guess what, the ride level compressor did not have to work as hard to maintain the ride aspect on the car.  I suspect that is a contributing factor as to why some of the Ride/Comps fail so often. Plus the car rides great!

As for buying a rusted roof/rusted rear window Eldo, if you can do the work, (or have a brother in the body shop business) then maybe, otherwise the labor costs would be prohibitive.  I'd look at some of the great slick tops for sale on Ebay, etc, then have a candidate car  inspected.   You can buy them right and still afford the shipping over.

[Rhdfuryiii]

As for buying a rusted roof/rusted rear window Eldo, if you can do the work, (or have a brother in the body shop business) then maybe, otherwise the labor costs would be prohibitive.  I'd look at some of the great slick tops for sale on Ebay, etc, then have a candidate car  inspected.   You can buy them right and still afford the shipping over.

I've kind of gone through that process in the last few weeks.  I was looking at another '70 Fury 'vert in NY (NC car); a really nice car but by the time I added the shipping, handling, engineering reports, registration, etc .. it was adding about AU$7K to the purchase price.  That AU$7K could probably pay for a lot of repairs, parts, etc on a car which is already here in Australia .. especially if the car here is reasonably cheap (which they are all getting to be around this time of the year).  A bit of the "beggars can't be chosers" scenario.

[Rob Troxel]

I fyou go the Eldorado route, you are at the right place for help.

[Rhdfuryiii]

Just an update .. the original car I was looking at disappeared.  Another car has shown up that I need to go look at .. I can "afford" it but currently don't have storage.  I'd have to sell one of my other cars at least to get the storage back, so that's a decision I need to make.

Might see me posting again soon, with more Eldorado questions.

[waterzap]

I have a 67 Toronado. Same car basically as the 68 Cadillac. Also have a 78 Eldorado, and I can tell you the Eldorado parts are about 100% easier to get. Most of the parts I can still get online very easily. If you are set on the 68 Eldorado, it’s a very pretty car, but parts are difficult. The 66-67 Toronado was basically the same car, different engine, more HP. Not sure if parts are easier to get for the Toronado, but they made about 40,000 of them in 66 and 20,000 in 67 vs about 18,000 of the Cadillac in 67 and 24,000 in 68. They also made many, many more of the later Eldorados. They made 40k to 50k of them every year from 71 to 78. The later Eldorados you really don’t have to be scared to drive. They really made so many of them there will be parts available for a long time. SOME of the parts are interchangeable from the later to the earlier Eldorados
The other one that falls into this category is the 66-67 Buick Riviera. Rear wheel drive though, but shares the same platform. Not sure how easy parts are for them.

[Rob Troxel]

The 68 Eldorado's are a great car.  The main issue would be sourcing front brake rotors and calipers.  The master cylinder is also a special one for that year.(Shared with a the limo) Some folks have switched out there 68 Eldos front brakes with 69 or later gear.  I believe that involves a spindle swap though other can give you specific details.

The rear suspension usually needs attention due to the air leveling. Sagging rear leaf springs is also common. Horizontal shocks were though to find as well but I understand someone is making them again.

The usual caution on the original front nylon/plastic timing gears wear that is known on all 472 engines.  In most cases it requires an engine pull to do that right.

Good luck,

[waterzap]

The Toronado's have the same horizontal shocks. Fusick's have them

[Rob Troxel]

Come to think of it, that's where I bought them from a couple of years ago.  Great reminder!

[waterzap]

I dont know 100% sure, but I think you might be able to source rotors and stuff from Toronado's? My 67 has rums all around. Stops ok, but parts are easy to find. I think the 67 had it as an option, and 68 and later on had it stock.