Show quality paint - what is recommended? (1957 Biarritz)

[57CaddyBiarritz]

Hi Folks,

So moving close to the painting phase on the restoration of my 1957 Biarritz (I'm not the painter).  Any recommendations on how to acheive a show quality look?  Specifically, line of paint that I should use, do I put a clear coat on, etc?

The body is in very good shape and currently has a seafom green on it.  The original color is Elysian green and I've been looking at the glasurit-55 line.  However, I also have heard about glasurit 90 and R-M diamont basecoat.

This is the first car I've been involved in, so any help you can offer would be appreciated.  I am looking to achieve originality, but also want the paint job to stand out.  thanks!

[Walter Youshock]

A quality job relies on PREPARATION more so than application.  A lot has been written about that.  The other thing is a good wet sanding and buffing to eliminate orange peel after the paint has cured.  NO '57 Cadillac came from Clark Ave. with orange peel.

Today, Subarus have smoother paint jobs than Cadillacs.

[Wayne Womble 12210]

Use a top line paint. The brand is not too important, but it is important to use good quality, not the cheaper lines. Every company has their cheaper stuff and their top of the line stuff.  None are cheap, but the price of the materials is minimal in comparison with the cost of the whole job, so use the best.

The 57 probably originally used nitro-cellulose lacquer. That is about the time acrylic lacquer was introduced, so it is possible that some colors were acrylic. These are still available and can be used, but the new materials are much better from a durability standpoint, and a good painter can make them look original if that is desired.   

[dplotkin]

As has been said, good paint is all in everything done before paint. However, after spending all that time and/or money sanding the car for what can be six months you might as well use the best paint you can, the incremental cost between good paint & not as good is too small to make sense.

This 56-60 is painted Glasurit urethane with clear on top. This particular color, Dawn Grey, wears 4 coats of clear without looking greasy wet. Now had I been doing this car in black or one of the reds I would have gone single stage and may be mixed some clear into the color coat to avoid the wet look, which does not belong on cars of this era. When using the metalics you just about have to use clear. As far as paint goes, all the manufacturers have a good-better-best. Always use the best of whatever brand you like or can lay your hands on.

Dan

[Matt Innocenzi]

For what it is worth, I used RM Diamont BC on my '62 Fleetwood.  RM was the only brand that could match the formula exactly for Code 24 Avalon Blue Metallic, and the color was dead on.  Besides the color being a dead match, it laid down nicely, had good body, and looks beautiful.  For my next project, I am not fooling around and going right for RM again.

My father once taught me an old slogan used in paint advertising in the '50s:  "only a rich man can afford cheap paint".  How true.

Matt

[Jim Beard]

A friend of mine was taught how to do custom paint by Gene Winfield. He taught me the same method. We just painted his 1964 Falcon in a light metallic green and it looks incredible. Here it is:

1. Choose your paint, a higher end paint will work better for coverage and sprayablility.
2. Spray your test panels with the color of sealer you will use and then your color over top and then clear it. Just like what is going on the car. Then apply a good sealer over your finished bodywork, a light color would do good under a light green.
3. Apply the basecoat, wet sand basecoat with a 2000 grit sandpaper, clean car with wax and grease remover and then apply your final coat of color. The painter should be familiar with methods involved in spraying metallic finishes to avoid any striping or splochiness.
4. Apply 4 coats of clear, let cure, sand clearcoat out with 1000 grit then 1500, 2000 and finally 3000 grit. Polish out paint with a wool pad on a buffer and compound followed by a medium cut foam pad and compound and finally a finish foam pad with a glazing compound.

We have used this method and the paint job always turns out fantastic. This method has quite a bit of labor and material cost involved so if you want a show quality finish be prepared to spend some money.

[rwchatham CLC 21892]

I have always found that starting the wet sanding process with 1000 works good for a street car but if you really want the paint to be as flat as possible you must start with 600 grit wet and work up to 800, 1000, 1500 up to 3000. Then hit with trizac 5000 then buff and polish. I always like to use a flourescent light hanging from the cieling as a gauge. Starting with 1000 you will have a great reflection and will be able to almost read the bulb wattage markings in the reflections. It will be a nice street car finish. For absolute show like you see at an autorama etc, when you start with 600 you will be able to read the markings clearly when the bulbs are 10 feet above the car. It is a ton of work but if you are after the ultimate finish that is what it takes.

[buicksplus]

If you pick out a metallic, watch out for the silver flake size.  Modern formulations tend to use bigger flakes that look odd on old cars, IMHO.  You can ask the dealer to use fine grade silver in the mix, that cuts down on the metal flake effect.

[66 Eldo]

I used R-M Diamont on a car 12 years ago and it was excellent. It is Glasurit's second tier but the quality is a 9/10 Glasurit being a 10 according to a person on the tech help line at BASF who makes both brands. I recently used Spies Hecker on a 64 Lincoln. My painter loved it especially the clear as it buffed out easy. The car was black too.

My painter uses Valspar for his collision work and PPG is his choice for classics. I cannot tell the difference between the PPG and some of the high end Euro paints I have brought him to spray. As mentioned, the prep and final polishing is key.

[N Kahn]

Cheap paint ends up costing more in the long run, I have now learned my lesson, it took a while though.

[76eldo]

My advice would be to talk to some area body shops about doing the final prep and shooting the car.
You need a booth and proper breathing equipment to do this correctly.

If you prep the car but let them do the final prep and paint it will probably work out way better.

[kkarrer]

There are a couple of other things to consider here once you've decided as to the type of paint you're going to use i.e. base/clear, single stage, etc.  I'm assuming that you'll go with base clear and I think some other have made the same assumption.  If that's the case you'll want to also consider that some base coats like Spies (great stuff, by the way) have a longer recoat and or clear coat window that others.  Many only give you 24 hrs. The Spies window is much longer. So you want to consider brands of paint and the differentiations within those brands.  I also saw a reference to color sanding base coat in one of these replies (a totally different deal than color sanding clear).  You'll want to be VERY careful if you try to color sand base coat paint, especially a "poly" or "metallic."  A high quality, high solids clear is recommended for "full panel" work and 3 or 4 coats should be plenty.  Remember to pay attention to the "temperature" requirements for your reducer and the same for the hardener for your clear.  This will help you to avoid runs and sags and will reduce orange peel.  Also, remember to seal that primer before you paint.
Ken Karrer 1941 6227D coupe

[76eldo]

The materials are very expensive and very bad for your lungs if sprayed without proper breathing protection.

I have a car in a body shop right now undergoing a bare metal respray.
The owner of the shop quoted me $3500.00 for the entire job of stripping areas that needed to be stripped, sanding the whole car to bare metal and doing any minimal body work, prime, paint, and polish, then reattach all moldings.

I saved $500.00 by removing the bumpers, all trim, emblems, door hardware, etc. so the job is now $3000.00.

He told me that $1000.00 of that would be for paint and reducer, primer, sealer, what he referred to as the liquids for the job.  Filler and sandpaper are expensive too.
Business is a bit slow and he is doing this for me on a fill in basis, but he has had the car for only a month and its ready to shoot next week.

I used to, with friends help, paint cars in lacquer back in the 70's.
Once everything went to urathane and two part paints that can kill you if you breath in enough I no longer considered that something you could do in a home garage.

The paint needs to be mixed by a pro, shot by a pro, and then sanded and polished by a pro.
Unless you are willing to settle for a mediocre job, I would let a pro block sand it and finish the car.

If you mess it up you will throw away a lot of expense and time and have to do it over.
Just my opinion, unless you are reply qualified to do this it is a wise move to get it done in a booth by a pro.

[Caddy Wizard]

I have been painting cars at home for years.  The new paints (two-stage urethanes) go on easier than the old enamels or lacquers and require less spraying skill.  They are lethal, require proper masks and precautions, and require more planning.  But in my experience, they are easier to use and produce better results for the home hobbyist than the old stuff.  Just make sure the garage is in no way connected to the house's HVAC system.  If so, forget it.


My at-home paint work rivals that  of commercial shops.  Here in ATL, a top quality job (strip, metal work, fill, prime, block, spray, color sand, buff) will set you back over ten thousand.  In fact, such work goes for about 10 to 20K.  At those prices, I'll keep doing the occasional paint job at home. 


Here is my two-tone job on my 56 FW (Taupe over Pecos Beige)...


Art

[INTMD8]

Lots of excellent advice in this thread.

I'll just add that one of my biggest paint job annoyances is being able to see where the paint shrunk down into deep sanding scratches. I think the best way to avoid this is to have no rougher than 180 grit scratches in any panel before priming.

So many times I see people prime right over 80 grit or rougher marks and once the paint is out in the sun a few days you will see all of that through the finish.