Newbie HELP! what have I gotten myself into? (sorry long post)

[pacificnwrider]

First an introduction: I'm Greg; Long time Cad enthousiast, as of Tuesday, first time owner.  I'm 40, I live in the desert part of Washington State where I've lived all my life.  I've got what I would describe as a good to "high good" aptitude for car repair; as well as an extensive resume, having torn town and rebuilt engines, transmissions, frame swaps, and so on many, many times.  I was raised with Cadillacs, My folks have had many.  I've recently developed the bug; I've searched and reasearched, I really love the 77-79 FWB's, and also the 77-79 Sevilles.  I finally pulled the trigger on a basket case 79 Seville in Reno.  Here's a bit about the car:
-1 owner since 1982
-garage kept
-rust free
-new paint 8 years ago
-new vinyl top at the same time
-dealer installed 350 with 35k miles on it (PO was told the timing set broke and toasted the top end so he had the original engine replaced)
-Parked under cover and under a car cover since 2005.  non working A/C
-Interior fair to good with the exception of the driver's seat, headliner good
-All window, sunroof, power seat motors working

Sounds good so far? Here's the rest.  PO states he lost 3rd gear in the transmission 8 years ago, and simply quit driving it.  It sat in a garage under a car cover until this past summer.  His son wanted to have it for his first car when he turned 16, so PO took it to the local mechanic; had the tank dropped and cleaned, fuel system cleaned, and both pumps replaced.  At that time he had the brake system gone through, as well as the air ride suspension repaired.  States he drove it around a bit in the weeks between the appointment at the “regular mechanic” and the “transmission mechanic” at low speeds(under 40).  States at some point it began running rough and blew out the catalytic converter and quit running.  States a bunch of cottony white looking stuff came out of the cat when it blew. 

Here’s where I’d like some information from you guys:
1.    Do I need a catalytic converter? Where my home is there are no emission requirements.  From what I’ve read, due to the fuel injection, a cat might be necessary.  I would like to bypass it if feasible and practical. 
2.   What could be up with the transmission? Fluid is fresh and clean; PO states a servo went out previously and he thinks that’s the problem now.  Anything else it might be? Need a rebuild?
3.  I'm not a fan of the continental grill, does anybody have an experience with removing one of these?
4.  Also not a fan of the window tint, any tips about how to get rid of that would be helpful
I have a few posts, and am familiar with the vast knowledge held by some of the members here.  I really hope to enlist your help to get this car on the road.  I see there are a few of us Cadillac enthusiasts here in Washington, I hope to meet and visit with you all and I’m looking forward to my experience.   

[D.Yaros]

I find it highly unusual that WA state would let you operate the car w/o the cat.  You do not have emissions testing in WA?  The absence of the cat could have an adverse effect on the engine, in altering needed back pressure levels?  You might want to look into that?

As for the tint, are you able to tell if it is film.  If it is, then I suspect there is a way to remove it.  Perhaps a place the tints windows can advise you on how to "untint" them?

[pacificnwrider]

Western Washington requires vehicle emissions standards and testing.  Where I live in rural Eastern Washington, there are none. 

[Dave Shepherd]

You get get a universal cat installed for about 250.00, but wait till things are checked out to make sure a problem with the engine or FI did not cause the failure, the trans lost the 3rd gear clutches, it will have to come out. As for removing the grille, look closely how it is installed, no magic here.

[Gene Beaird]

The transmission probably needs to have the seals in the clutch packs replaced.  It'll have to come out, so just have it gone through.  If the clutches were slipping, they'll probably need to be replaced anyway, too.  After that, the TH400 should be good as new.  Our 79 is in need of a similar transmission rebuild.

I agree with Dave to verify you're not running too rich before replacing the cat.  If you don't need to pass a visual or emissions test, I'd just put a straight pipe there and not worry about it.  I've _never_ heard of a catalytic converter 'blowing' out.  I think the OEM cat on that car uses the pellets, and I guess if you got them hot enough, you could cause the pellets to burn, which might produce a white ash, but that's a new one on me. 

A cat is not _necessary_ for proper running of the fuel injection system.  It will lean the mixture out a bit due to the reduced back pressure from freer-flowing exhaust, but the system should be able to adjust for that.  If your car has California emissions (should say so on the engine vacuum hose routing decal on the radiator support), it will have an oxygen sensor, which would be necessary to retain, but not the cat. 

If the cat has to be there for visual inspection, but not emissions testing, you can remove the pellets or the (probably) melted monolith brick and just run the shell.  You'll need to see what has to be done, first.  In Texas, there's an Antique automobile registration you can register the car under.  It significantly limits what you can do with the car (no errands, just driving to and from shows or mechanic only), but you are free from annual inspections of any kind.  You may want to look to see if you can do this in Washington. 

I removed the window tint off a couple of windows on a Mustang SVO we are restomodding.  I did pull the windows out (and eventually replaced them with new to get rid of the scratches), and physically peeled the film off with little more than a razor blade.  The hard part is getting the adhesive off the inside of the window, as that's left after you peel the mylar off.  I used isopropyl  alcohol to get it off.  Pour the alcohol on the adhesive, and wait for it to soften the stuff, then scrape it off with a razor blade.  It took a while, but if you take your time, let the alcohol do most of the work, the job is just messy, not hard.  I'm not sure how I'd do it with the windows still in the car. 

[TJ Hopland]

The white stuff was likely from the muffler.  It was common for them to have insulation in them for that little extra noise suppression.  Guessing there was just a build up of fuel somewhere that got ignited and caused a 'backfire'.    Im not real up on the details of that efi system but I would assume there would be failure modes that would cause them to run rich.  Running rich would be hard on the cat and eventually pretty much plug it which usually just makes it all that much worse as far as heat and extra fuel. 

As far as the question of cat or no cat legally if it left the factory with one it has to keep one if its to be used on public roads.  As someone else mentioned there are modern universal and possibly even a direct fit one that is not that expensive and performs much better than the OE ones did.  I doubt you would really see a performance gain from loosing it (assuming its not plugged).  This era was just not the ultimate in performance to begin with and most Cad owners are not trying to squeeze every HP out for the drag strip anyway.  EFI system and engine should not care.   They do quiet things a bit so without one the sound may be different so that is also a factor to consider.   

[98moveing]

Ok hi.
On your number 1.catalytic converter you can run a straight pipe bypass with your muffler.
Your number 2. with your transmission i wood get it rebuild.
Your number 3. the grill it's a 2 pc. grill so pop your hood and the part on the lid come out. And the bottom part come out. Just look for all the bolts and screws.
Your number 4. the window tint get your self an razor blade scraper an some windex for the side windows. And if your car, on the back glass have defrost lines use an clothes steamer to heat up the tint. And peel it off. You can't not put the razor on them lines. Just do an youtube on tint removing and you see on what to do!

I hope this helps!!

[pacificnwrider]

THANKS GUYS! great information so far! with 155k miles on the original transmission, I think a rebuild is in order.  I plan to hang on to the car, so might as well do it sooner than later.  I'm betting one or both of the tempurature sensors is out; also was reading some of the great posts from Bruce, and I might have a problem with a portion of the ECU. 
I'm going to go ahead and replace the cat, just for good measure. 

[bcroe]

Any car that old needs the trans soft parts replaced.  Thats only a $30 kit, but
for the majority not up to this, the labor is the same as a full overhaul.  But you
still want it to shift like a Cad  In that case I'd encourage the trans shop not to
make any kind of mod to the trans, not change ANY hard parts unless they are
actually damaged.  PUT BACK the same WAVY clutch pack steel clutch plates, NOT 
toss them for FLAT that will bang more.  With that light car, chances are the trans
doesn't need a lot. 

Timing chain failed on first engine, that is a MUST REPLACE part for that era.  If the
replacement engine has an all steel timing set (anything but GM will), you are good. 

Replace the original Cat with a monolithic + 2.5" exhaust and your car will run better
& be legal.  No cat better yet, not legal.  I'm here in NW IL in part, because there are
no car inspections of any kind. 

The EFI should have all new injector seals & hoses, or risk a fire.  Its good to have a
spare ECU if you can find one, if in doubt I test them if you do postage.  Any year
Seville ECU will get you home.  Do check the water & air EFI temperature sensors
for around 1000 ohms. They fail a lot and make the car hard to start (no effect when
hot).  MTS has new replacements. 

Once everything is running right, think about adding the fuel pump relay as on my
PHOTOBUCKET user bcroe.  This will avoid 1/3 of the ECU failures I have seen.  Another
1/3 is the MAP sensor, and then all the integrated circuits.  good luck Bruce Roe CLC # 14630

[pacificnwrider]

Any car that old needs the trans soft parts replaced.  Thats only a $30 kit, but
for the majority not up to this, the labor is the same as a full overhaul.  But you
still want it to shift like a Cad  In that case I'd encourage the trans shop not to
make any kind of mod to the trans, not change ANY hard parts unless they are
actually damaged.  PUT BACK the same WAVY clutch pack steel clutch plates, NOT 
toss them for FLAT that will bang more.  With that light car, chances are the trans
doesn't need a lot. 

Thanks so much Bruce for taking the time to respond! I'd relish an opportunity to send the ECU your way.  I've done a couple clutch kits in a couple Ford C6's, I'm wondering if a clutch kit in one of these would be much more complicated? Especially considering the advent of tutorials on Youtube and so on, thoughts?

[Davidinhartford]

Nice looking car!     Congrats on your purchase!

If you take off the aftermarket grille don't toss it away.   There is a market for those pimp grilles, so polish it up and put it on Ebay or the Classified section here on this board.

[pacificnwrider]

If you take off the aftermarket grille don't toss it away.

Yea I'm hoping for just that! offset a bit of any other costs!

[pacificnwrider]

Replace the original Cat with a monolithic + 2.5" exhaust and your car will run better
& be legal.  No cat better yet, not legal. 

Bruce, you'll forgive my lack of knowledge, "monolithic"? Is one piece? exhaust system you're referring to? Any tips about where to buy one?  I'm glad to hear the absence of a cat won't cause any running or other problems for that engine. 

Also, I'd really like to take you up on your gracious offer to check my ECU.  What should I expect to pay? where would I send it to?

THANKS AGAIN!

[TJ Hopland]

The earlier cats were basically a bunch of pellets similar to a water softener.  The monolithic is more of a honeycomb block.   

[Gene Beaird]

Thanks so much Bruce for taking the time to respond! I'd relish an opportunity to send the ECU your way.  I've done a couple clutch kits in a couple Ford C6's, I'm wondering if a clutch kit in one of these would be much more complicated? Especially considering the advent of tutorials on Youtube and so on, thoughts?

On a TH400, like the one in the Seville, the inner clutch pack seals need to be installed with an installer tool that lets the seals slip past the notches cut into the drum for the retaining rings.  While you may be able to make some sort of installer sleeve out of some metal shim stock, it's been so long since I've done the job I couldn't tell you if it's even possible.  If you don't use the installer tools, you risk nicking the seal lips in the clutch drums, causing them to leak and possibly cause the transmission to slip when in a particular gear. 

Personally, I'd pull the transmission and take it to a reputable builder with Bruce's instructions.  Mark the transmission so you know you're getting yours back.  Then reinstall it yourself. 

While the transmission is being redone, you can work on getting the other stuff up to snuff.  I forgot completely about the temp sensors.  They will make the car hard to start cold.  Our 79 took about three times with the starter until it ran when cold.  I replaced the failed temp sensor, and it now starts right up.  Here's what you'll need:

http://www.mtscadparts.net/servlet/the-322/EFI-Water-%26-Temp/Detail

There are two on the car.  They are interchangeable, so if you have one that ohms out, you can swap it for the other.  I'd grab a couple of the above-listed sensors as spares.  They come and go in stock with the various vendors, so best to get some while they have them. 

[pacificnwrider]

On a TH400, like the one in the Seville, the inner clutch pack seals need to be installed with an installer tool that lets the seals slip past the notches cut into the drum for the retaining rings. 

I know a great home town transmission man, I don't want to take this thing out often, LOL, so I'll just bite the bullet and take it his way.  In light of your information, I don't think I'll try and tackle it myself. 

[Gene Beaird]

If you actually know a transmission guy, go talk to him about just doing those seals.  That's what I did when I rebuilt my TH400 in an old Trans Am I was rebuilding.  We had a local transmission guy I was friends with.  I took those parts to him, and he replaced the seals and assembled the clutch packs for me while I waited.  The rest of the transmission is easy, it's those clutch drums that require the really special tools. 

I'll add that it's a messy job, too.  ATF gets everywhere, or so it seems, so perhaps it's just better to roll the car down to your local transmission shop and let them handle it all.  I had a couple of shirts I always wore when working on transmissions.  They were always stained brown.  I somehow almost always ended up with the back of my head wet with the stuff too.   

[pacificnwrider]

Good Idea! In any case I'm going to try the Detent solenoid and the dentent switch first, along with the shift servo weights and the little vacuum thing on the side.  If it's not one of those things then I'll just drop it out, but if I get lucky and one of those is the repair for it, I might buy myself some time before having to pay for a rebuild.