1941 Front License Plate Holder

[kkarrer]

Would anyone happen to have or know of a source for a license plate holder for the FRONT of a 41 Cadillac?  From what I've seen of the bumpers on the late 30's and early 40's cars I would think that they're not too specific.
Thanks,
Ken Karrer 1941 6227D coupe

[Steve Passmore]

Didn't have a holder did they Ken, mine was just mounted in the center of the bumper.

[kkarrer]

Steve,
      I think there were a number of cars like that.  Mine has one that clamps to the edge of the bumper, but it can't be centered as it would interfere with air flow to the radiator.  The few "correct" ones that I've seen are sort of triangularly shaped and clamp to the top and bottom edges of the bumper and allow you to mount the license plate level with the bumper.  I'm also looking for some license plate frames that will fit on 1941 Texas license plates without obscuring the wording, dates, etc. on the plate.
Ken Karrer 1941 6227D coupe

[Bill Ingler #7799]

Hi Ken: The license plate holder like the one on the 41 pictured below is correct for the 41. I think Ed Cholakian in Vegas had front plate holders made some time ago. As far as the license plate frame, I think you are referring to the picture below. Available on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/License-Plate-Frames-1946-48-49-50-51-52-53-54-Cadillac-/200890294287?fits=Year:1947|Make:Cadillac&hash=item2ec5fea00f&item=200890294287&pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr       Bill

[Paul Phillips]

Ken
I have one of the style in Bill's photo. I can loan it to you if you want to try to fabricate a clone. I suspect it is at least a couple months before I will have a need for it. Let me know if ou want to go that way.

You may also want to try Steve Cooley or Eddie Jones as well to see if they have a restorable one.

Paul

[kkarrer]

Paul,
     Thanks.  I have a call in to Steve and one other fellow has responded here.  I know I can make one if I have an example so I very much appreciated the offer.  I'll get back with you after Steve calls me back.
Thanks again,
Ken

[gary griffin]

I live in a state where we are free to drive our classics with no front plate. We can also use a correct year plate.

[Doug Houston]

Bill Ingler's lower picture shows the correct one. It's formed from sheet steel stock, and clamps to the front bumper. The upper piece is shown in Bill's picture, but there are several other parts that don't show.

I guess that I should take some pictures of one of mine.  Some years ago, I had several of those bracket kits that I'd bought from Cadillac. They were something like $7.00 each when I bought them. One of the heavily moneyed members in Detroit "borrowed" one so that he could have it duplicated, which is an easy job. A couple of months passed, nd I asked him to return it. He said that he couldn't find anyone to copy it, so he'll buy it from me (an age-old filthy trick). He ended up paying me $75.00 for the"borrowed" license mount, after a volley of obscenities was exchanged.

Anyone wanna know why I never loan anything?

[harry s]

This license plate bracket has been on ebay a number of times. Wonder why it hasn't sold.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1941-Cadillac-4-Dr-Sedan-Series-61-Front-License-Plate-Bracket-/251165893048?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a7aa761b8&vxp=mtr

[Paul Phillips]

Might have something to do with the condition & price.  I have seen a lot of parts offered on ebay over time that would cost more to restore than to duplicate.  I usually find it much better to seek the best core to start with.

Paul

[Doug Houston]

Here's what my holders look like.

Please pardon the one view. I burped.

[Doug Houston]

Forgot to mention a detail. Notice that the lower hooks on the bracket are sort of broad in depth. This is so that the tubular license plate frame will fit into those tabs.

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Doug,
I'm  sure he appreciates the great pics. They prompted me to go out & look at all my brackets. They all have a nice tight little "V". I think some dealer "broadened" your holder to accomodate the license frames. And I do understand that the mod has to be done to hold the frames.
Bob

[kkarrer]

Doug, Bill, Harry, and Bob,(this post was updated to give the correct link to the photo album)
Thanks. You guys are always such a great resource.  The pictures help a lot.  I could have easily paid for a front license plate holder and gotten only 1 of the several pieces involved in the assembly.  I don't have to run a front plate.  I really like the lines of the car without it, but those plates cost 2 to 3 hundred bucks as you have to have a pair to register the car in Texas and mine are in great shape and add to the authenticity of the car and the restoration, so I'll probably continue to persue the option so that I'll have it for touring and show.  I know we never discussed plates when we talked about judging these cars at Nationals so it's not really a "points" issue...just me trying to add a finishing touch here.  Speaking of the looks of the car I've attached a link to an electronic photo album that shows the progress start to finish.  They may be helpful to someone else who's restoring a 41.  Moreover if you make an album like this, Walgreens will print everthing and bind it so that you can have a hard copy.  I think it's so much better than the putting photo into a bulkly album.  If you go to this link, you have create a password that will allow you to view the album, but you won't get spam as a result.

I invite you to view the following Photo book:

1941 6227D Cadillac
Coupe

Here's how:

1) Visit the link below to access my Photo book on Walgreens.

Kenneth's Photo book

2) You'll be asked to type in your name and email address and then choose a password. This ensures the privacy of my Photo book and also sets up your own password-protected account on Walgreens.

If the link above does not work, highlight the link below using your cursor.  Then copy and paste the link into your browser address window and hit the "Enter" or "Return" key on your keyboard.

http://photo2.walgreens.com/walgreens/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=18701079002/a=7645778002_7645778002/otsc=SHR/otsi=SALBlink/COBRAND_NAME=walgreens/

Thanks again guys.  I'm still waiting to hear from Steve Cooley, but I have found one piece of the puzzle.
Ken Karrer 1941 6227D coupe

[Doug Houston]

Doug,
I'm  sure he appreciates the great pics. They prompted me to go out & look at all my brackets. They all have a nice tight little "V". I think some dealer "broadened" your holder to accomodate the license frames. And I do understand that the mod has to be done to hold the frames.
Bob

No, Bob. Nobody but yours truly has ever had his meat hooks on this bracket. It came right out of Cadillac's package, and still has the original paint on it.  Notice, if you will, that the clamp screw (I used a stainless hex head capscrew in place of the original round head one), and then, the several adjustment square holes in the top clamp. With all of the latitude available, it will take a pretty big plate, such as the early New Jersey plates. It'll even go down to the height of those tiny West Virginia plates of long ago.

I may never need to strip and re-finish any of my '41 brackets, but if I ever do, they'll be powder coated.

[Bill Ingler #7799]

Bob & Doug: Correct me if I am wrong but the chrome tubular license plate frame pictured below was the generic plate supplied by most GM dealers through the forties and listed in the Master Chassis Parts book under Group 51.0300. These frames were shown under optional equipment and accessories and cost about$3.80 a pair. My book only goes through 48 but it shows the plate frame used 1939-1948.  It showed plate frame numbers as follows #1446261.....One set-large. Part# 1446262.....one set-large (California,Wisconsin) Part# 1446263.....One set small
and Part#1097275.....Rear Frame only-For State of Florida.

     Picture below is the chrome tubular license frame sitting on an original 47 front license plate bracket with the v for the bottom of the plate. No way will the license plate, when it is inside this tubular frame, fit in the v unless the v is opened enough to hold the license with tubular frame. The center slide bracket does not need to be opened as the center tube of the chrome frame is open and goes around the top of the slide bracket when it is holding the plate. The same V at the bottom on my 41 needed to be opened the same as this 47 will need to be opened up to secure the license plate frame to the license bracket. So did the factory supply the front license frame with each car and then let the dealer apply the license frame? Did the factory offer a license bracket that was modified to take the license frame?  The parts book has proved to be wrong before to what could and was supplied.   Bill

[pauldridge]

Ken
Kanter has those chrome frames for less than eBay

As far as the metal backing bracket, looks similar to those available for peanuts on numerous early Ford catalog websites

Phil

[Doug Houston]

From what I can make out of these pictures, the '47 frame is different from the '41 frame, in that in the '41 model, it is a clamp with an adjusting screw at the bottom of the assembly. Study the pictures I sent, and see if the '47 model isn't different,  The lower cradle slides vertically along the main upper clamp piece on the one I show..

It looks to me as though the lower part (the frame cradle) isn't an adjustable clamp on the '47 version. The test will be: does your '47 license frame have the same general parts as the one I've shown? If not, we're comparing apples to oranges.

I use the identical frames as you show, The lower part of the bracket is an adjustable clamp, and it doesn't look like the '47 one is the same.

I hope we can get this "rhubarb" settled soon.

[Doug Houston]

Ken

As far as the metal backing bracket, looks similar to those available for peanuts on numerous early Ford catalog websites

Phil

Be careful!! The frame is designed to conform to the contour of the '41 bumper. It's different for the particular model bumper that it's sold for..

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Guys,
The frames are " generic" made by a company called Coast to Coast.
I'm sure many auto manufactutres bought them & put them in their own packaging. Cadillac did.
I have a NOS pair that was sold in 1941 in Cadillac boxes. Part # 1441814
They are MUCH higher quality than post war ones.
I've had many 41's & can't remember ever seeing a front bracket "modified".
I'm sure most of these cars had the original 41 brackets.
My point is that whether it's a 41 or a 47 bracket, the 2  lower tabs that hold the plate or frame are the issue. Maybe by the time Doug bought the bracket, the factory got smart & modified them.
Doug, how about checking your other cars?
So... can we make a pie out of that rhubarb??? I'm hungry.
Bob