1947 Convertible worth saving?

[Jeff Trahan]

I had a body shop look at my '47 convertible today.  Frankly, I think he was trying to tell me the car is only worth parting out.  I had planned to restore it to its former glory but now I'm wondering if he is right.  I attached some photos of the worst parts of the body to see if others agree it should be parted out or if you think it could be restored without spending a lot more than it will be worth in the end. 

The worst part of it is that my uncle has other cars in similar shape (1938 Cadillac model 9033, 1958 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz, 1935 Buick model 46C, 1931 Buick model 96).  I had planned to restore all of them over the next several years but if the '47 isn't worth restoring, then the others may not be worth restoring either.

Thanks for your advice.

Jeff T.

[Bill Ingler #7799]

Your body man is right-part out what you can but if all the rest of the car looks as bad as the pictures then what remains might not bring much money. Now if some of the stainless steel trim is decent or any seats that are not rusted through, then you might get some money for what remains of the car. I would suggest you take 5 or 6 pictures of the whole car and post them here. Then let those out there who need parts for a 47 convert contact you for their needs.    Bill

[C.R. Patton II]

Hello Jeff

Glad to see your pictures and read your questions BEFORE you delve into a project(s) that will make you need CPR. Bill Ingler is an experienced knowledgeable member who is sharing his wisdom with you. Please listen to him prior to any action.

I have some additional data to share.

(1) 1938 Cadillac 9033 produced 95, today #1 condition 90k
(2) 1947 Cadillac 6267 produced 6,755, today #1 condition 90k
(3) 1958 Cadillac 6267SX produced 304, today #1 condition 152k

I provided these numbers to illustrate the message by Bill. It will cost you TWICE the final #1 condition amount to restore your automobiles. I would advise you to select ONE car to invest in with the others as your funding sources.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

G'day Jeff,

If those pictures are of the worst parts, then I think you had better get some more quotes before proceeding any further.

If the rest of the car is really good, then these spots can be repaired, but not cheaply.

But, be prepared to part it out, unless you have a very good reason for wanting it re-built, as from what you have shown, doesn't look good.

Once sandblasted, you will be surprised just how much worse it will be.

Bruce.

[Steve Passmore]

Everything depends on where you are and what else is available to you Jeff, and the most important thing is can you do any thing yourself? 
If the car was here in the UK I would restore it in a heart beat.     Your car is nowhere near as bad as my 41 convertible when I pulled it from a wreaking yard in Maine in the 90s. Your car has a lot of rust in the floors Jeff, my car had absolutely NO floor from the edge of the trunk lid at the back to the pedals up front!  all gone!. not even a pattern.

Many things made me restore it. 
Highly desirable.
A restored car way out my price range.
It would be the only one here in the UK.
And the two main reasons,      I was able to do 90% of the work myself and I loved every minute of it, even though it took six years.

If you cant do any of this work yourself then I agree with the other posters its not the car for you, but before you part out this desirable car I would see if there's any brave souls in the world that would take it on,   the car then gets saved and you make some money. With the internet these wreaks are going for more money than they would ever make parting out as you will find you are left with 80% of the bulk of the vehicle that you still have to dispose of.

[Terry Wenger]

Jeff: 

Steve pretty well summed it up: what can you do yourself?

As a restorer of some of these terrible cars, I do most of the work myself. If you can learn to weld and find a '42-'47 62 coupe for parts, it can be done. If you have to have it done, the cost will be prohibitive.

It certainly isn't the worst '47 convertible to be restored. It is a valuable and desirable car. It is certainly a car that can be restored (guessing from the pictures).

Terry Wenger

[Bill Ingler #7799]

    There might be a brave soul out there who might take on this project but it would not be the metal repair that is the only major problem, it is finding certain parts that only were used on 46-7 Cad or Buick converts. Assuming the rest of Jeff`s car has suffered from sitting out for years in the weather, one would need to find all the chrome garnish moldings used on the doors/quarter panels, chrome vent windows/frames, metal/plastic window switches, front door/quarter window frames, rear fender spears and front/rear seats.
    For those reading this posting who need parts like I just listed to finish their cars, they know how difficult it is to find those parts and then how expensive even if found. The 46-7 Cadillac convertible is a very popular car to restore and out of the 8,097 that were built, there are very few left in a restorable condition and very few parts left to finish those that can be restored. It is my opinon that a major restoration such as this should never be started unless you have the parts in hand to complete the car.    Bill

[Jeff Trahan]

Fortunately, I have all the parts plus some extras except for the rear seat. I also attached a photo of the car before taking it apart. It looked a bit better then.

Jeff T

[buicksplus]

I think few cars are "worth" a professional restoration.  A complete body off restoration is going to cost at least 100K -- that amounts to a mere 2000 hours (one person working for a year) at $50/hour.  Can't find many shops today working for that low an hourly rate.  How many restored cars can be sold for more than 100K?  Not many. 

Most production body shops hate working on rust.  It takes hours to do it right and both the shop and customer are not happy about the time and money it takes. 

I suggest you sell the cars as they sit.  Any work you do now will probably not be recovered in added value.  But car projects seem sell for quite a bit and you can use the money towards buying a restored car. 

If you're handy, try to get them back together and on the road yourself.  It's tedious, but you will learn a lot doing it.  And it is very satifying to fix a rusty beater.

Good luck! 

[Quentin Hall]

For me, "The hobby" is the learning of the skills required to bring a car back from the dead. It is like doing Sudoku or Tetris or knitting or crosswords. Sometimes financial reward isn't the motivation. But it should be considered. Yes sometimes I curse and swear that my life would be so simple if I was satisfied with Sudoku or Tetris . . . . or knitting. But then I wouldn't have the satisfaction of transforming what others said was a piece of junk into a great car. But I completely understand the time that these damn cars absorb. I have friends that have built up successful businesses in the time that it took me to "play with my cars". So bear that in mind.
     My "old" 59 was in a similar state when I found it. I actually got told by numerous people that it was only worth parting when I first found it.
     If you have 4 other cars to pick from then I would be seriously looking at which is your favourite and then making a hard decision on what to keep or sell.         

[Terry Wenger]

Jeff:

Now that I see the car assembled and hear about all the parts you have, I would restore it in a heartbeat if I didn't have one already. Learn how to weld and do it yourself or sell it as is to someone who can.

It would be terrible to part that car out !  I have done 3 rusty Cadillac convertibles, a '39, '47 and '56.

Terry Wenger

[KD]

What kind of shape is the 9033 in?
KD CLC#26801. Any pics?

[Quentin Hall]

G'day Jeff, I may have a spare 47 conv back seat if you are determined. Might just be the bare frames and needing respringing . I'll check next week. But it is here in Australia. What's the 58 Biarritz like? Q

[59-in-pieces]

I agree with Q and others, if you enjoy working with your hands - even if you don't know ALL the disciplines required to restore a car, you can price out those tasks you can't do and reserve the rest for yourself.
Again like others have said, some of my cars were like the FLINTSTONE car - no floors and in need of patch panels for the fenders, rocker panels, trunk, and quarter panel.
The most fun I have had in this hobby was doing the work myself.
Good luck on whatever you decide to do.

Oh! Q - did you know you have 4 flat tires on your 59 - LOL.
Steve B.

[Jeff Trahan]

The only sheet metal I've been able to find are floor pans. I doubt I'd be able to find patch panels or a donor body that is in any better shape than my car. Can rockers and lower quarter panels be made from scratch to be the same shape as the originals?  I'm not as concerned about exactly duplicating some of the other sheet metal parts that can't be seen (trunk pan, inner rockers, etc.).

Thanks for all the advice.

Jeff T.

[Steve Passmore]

Rocker panels are listed at  "Rock Auto"  and also at "Classic 2 Currant Fabrications.

[Bill Ingler #7799]

Hi Jeff: Any sheet metal part for that car can be made as long as you or someone else have the skills to make the part. If you can`t make the part, then you better have deep pockets for the work performed by someone else. Looking at the first pictures you posted and even after posting the last picture and saying you have all the parts, here is why in my opinion you either should sell the car or part the car out. Every sheet metal part on the car will need to be media blasted or dipped to get rid of all the rust before areas can be welded and repaired. If you dipped the parts it could be that parts of the sheet metal could resemble Swiss cheese and then the body man will say " How and what do I weld to" Some of the parts of the body you don`t see could be in bad shape after cleaning and these structural parts of the body need to be welded back with the same shape and in exactly the same location. When the whole car is put back together there are critical clearance areas that will need to be maintained while restoring the body or your door, fender and hood fit will give you trouble.
I have been where you are now, maybe not as bad but still to restore my 47 convert properly here is what happened after my car was dipped and my body man( I flunked welding in high school) said this will not be a restoration but a reserection. I had to buy two front fenders, two rear fenders and bought what was left of a 46-62 coupe to get the full floor as well as the botton part of the quarter panels.
     Anything can be restored but it has a price.     Bill

[Jeff Trahan]

The Classic 2 Current rocker panels are for Series 61 4-door.  Do you think the rocker panels would be the same for a Series 62 convertible?  Or at least close enough in shape that they could be pieced together to work?

[Scot Minesinger]

Enjoy yourself with this car.  This is a hobby, not an investment.  Of course you will be upside down with just about any classic car where substantial improvements are completed.  Only proceed if you love the car.  I agree with many others, do a lot of it yourself.  You will like the car even more when it is finished if you had something to do with it, not to mention the savings.  I would not be surprised if this car cost well in excess of 150k to restore if done by others and they will make mistakes.

If you are determined to have a 1947 Cadillac convertible for the most economical cost, then buy a # 1 car for 90k, and sell this one.

On the other cars, each one is a two year 150k deal.  If you have to have these cars restored it is more trouble and cost than sending four kids through college.  Probably best to pick one or maybe two and sell the others.

[Bill Ingler #7799]

The 47-61 series car wheel base is 126 inches while the 47-62 series wheel base is 129 inches. Parts numbers are different for both series. I would call whomever is selling the new 4 door rocker panels and ask them their length. Then measure the ones on your car and that should answer your question.
    If you do elect to proceed with a restoration of your car make sure that before that convert body is lifted from the frame and with the doors off the car, weld a brace across both door openings from the front pillar post to the door latch post. Weld another brace cross ways from the left pillar post across to the right door latch post. Do the same with the other side. Now you have secured the movement of the critical part of the  body so that when you lift the body off the frame, replace body parts, you have preserved the  body alignments for refitting the doors. The attached picture will show the bracing on my 71 Olds convert. The area of the cowl from just above the firewall and up to where it meets the convert top frame is unique to only the convert. So if you do proceed with a restoration and you a can find a 62 series 46 or 47 coupe as a donor car, you can use everything from the firewall back to replace the entire floor including the trunk floor. You will need to retain the convert cowl from your car and weld that to the coupe firewall of the donor car.  Good luck with which ever way you  decide go.    Bill