1976 Talisman

[Brent Hladky #21519]

I have my eye on a '76 Talisman, and I'm hoping to be enlightened about what some of the more costly repair issues might be as well as exactly what to look at carefully when purchasing one.  This particular vehicle has loads of options, including fuel injection and sun roof.  Any insight would be gratefully appreciated.  Thanks!!

[bcroe]

Probably requires a replacement timing chain.  The EFI will perform better, but is another
service problem.  If the original injector seals haven't been replaced, its a fire hazard.  But
resources are available.  Put in a fuel pump relay.  Bruce Roe

[Brent Hladky #21519]

Thanks very much.  I doubt that the injector seals have been changed, so I will certainly check that out if I purchase it.  Do you have any idea what the cost range typically is if one has EFI problems?

[mechanic80]

On my 76 Seville 350 FI system, seals cost about $22 for the entire set.  Labor was about 1.5 hours never having done that before.  Replacing all fuel lines with FI hose (Barricade by Goodyear, I believe) is good.  The ethanol in today's fuel destroys rubber in no time.  The fuel pump relay is simple and I replaced the pumps as well as a cautionary measure.  BTW, the in-tank pump rubber hoses were completely degraded.  I'm not even sure how it could function.  Runs fine now, just have to get to the timing chain.

[Walter Youshock]

Does it also have the Track Master brakes and air bag?

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

I have my eye on a '76 Talisman, and I'm hoping to be enlightened about what some of the more costly repair issues might be as well as exactly what to look at carefully when purchasing one.  This particular vehicle has loads of options, including fuel injection and sun roof.  Any insight would be gratefully appreciated.  Thanks!!

Hello Brent,

Not intending to be sarcastic here but "repair issues" for a 1976 Cadillac Fleetwood Talisman w/FI can range from $0 to $100,000+. The information you provided is so vague that to try answering would just be shooting in the dark.

I will say that early FI is significantly more trouble-prone than conventionally aspirated and far more expensive to tend. Personally I tend to avoid cars with the option altogether.

If you could provide some good photos of the car- in, out: sides, front, back, chrome, underhood, trunk, interior etc, it would be immeasurably helpful in rendering any useful advice. Needless to say, there's no substitution for an up close, in person inspection but the pics will at least give a general idea as to the car's overall state and whether it's worth pursuing.

Eric

 

[Gene Beaird]

I'm not sure I'd go running away from the late-70's Cadillac FI system, if the car's system is functioning well, but it would be a concern if the potential new car did have starting or driveability issues.  If it's running well, some simple preventative maintenance can go a long way towards enjoying decades of driving enjoyment.  Replace the injector o-rings and add the relay, and that will help a lot.  Search for waterzap's posts on his o-ring replacement work on his 76 Seville.  He went deeper into the system than many probably would, so he noted what he did, and what he found in his forum thread.  Good read. 

The distributor is unique for these cars, in that they have a timer unit on them for the FI system.  Rock Auto seems to have some of these rebuilt distributors in stock, so you may want to grab a spare. 

You'll want to get a couple of spare temperature sensors.  One of them provides a signal to the FI system, and when it's bad, the car will be hard to start and run oddly when cold.  Both sensors are the same, so you can swap them if one goes bad, but you'll probably eventually want good working sensors.  They aren't that expensive, and supply comes and goes, so just get spares of these, too.

If push comes to shove, you _can_ retrofit a carburetor system to the car with not a lot of expense, or go with an aftermarket FI system, if you're so inclined, but the existing system is not too bad if it's working.  It's just unique as it's an analog FI system, a 'GM FI system version 2.0' if you will, given that the mid-50's Chevy FI system was version 1.0. 

The timing chain is another good place to either verify it's been done, or just do it.  This can cause a lot of odd starting and driveability issues with the car if the OEM chain and gears are in place and the plastic teeth have crumbled off the cam gear. 

If this model has the Climate Control Programmer, that's another potential place for problems.  The one on our 79 Seville had a burned power connector.  I got a spare connector body from someone who was parting out a Seville, but our programmer tested good via the controller tester.  You'll want to get a Kent Moore climate controller tester:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RobinAir-Kent-Moore-J23678-D-Automatic-Temperature-Control-Tester-/190828280822?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item2c6e407bf6&vxp=mtr

They run from about $50 on up.  Good investment if you have a Cadillac with one of these controllers.  Spare programmers aren't commonly-available, so you'll want to check with people parting out late-70's Cadillacs for your spare there. 

Other than that, you're looking at a pretty standard late-70's GM vehicle.  The engine and transmission are nearly bullet-proof but easily-rebuildable.  The only body parts that are an issue are the plastic bumper extensions.  The replacements are fair, at best, there's only one source for replacements, and even those rare NOS pieces are subject to age, like the ones on the car, so aren't much of an advantage, especially given the astronomical price people charge for NOS pieces. 

I think that's about all I can think of.  They have specific parts, but many are still available.  While I would check one over pretty closely, I wouldn't hesitate to own one.  Heck, we already do with our 79 Seville.   

[bcroe]

I'm not sure I'd go running away from the late-70's Cadillac FI system, if the car's system is functioning well

If this model has the Climate Control Programmer, that's another potential place for problems.  The one on our 79 Seville had a burned power connector.  I got a spare connector body from someone who was parting out a Seville, but our programmer tested good via the controller tester.   

Good advice.  I noticed the Climate Control Programmer on my 79 Eldo runs the blower motor Max Speed
current through the Programmer; likely the same on Seville.  That is very risky, a good candidate for another relay.  A little tricky, I ran an article on how to do this in the Self-Starter a few years ago.  Also built a test box plugging into the CC to allow putting it in any desired mode, and to make some measurements.  Bruce Roe

[Davidinhartford]

Brent,  post some pictures when you can. 

As the others have pointed out, the early EFI will add to the maint costs.   Alot of guys are leary of them.    As long as the rest of the car is complete and none of the Talisman specific items are missing or in need of replacement you should be ok.   

Like any other car of its era, look for rust under the rear edge of the vinyl top moldings,  bottom corners of the backglass too. 

Bottoms of the front fenders behind the front wheels are a common rust-out spot.   In fact, the entire length of the rocker moldings is a water catcher and can hide rust.    Along the metal bodyside moldings too.   Pull off the rear fender skirts and look for rust.  At the skirt hangers too.   

Rear plastic fender extensions are available to buy for replacement.   Unless they've been replaced, expect to replace them sooner or later.   

Other than that, those big ol Bro-Hams are great cars.   

Good luck and don't forget to share some photos with us.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Unless the OP is a seasoned veteran, well versed in all the ins and outs of early FI, I would not advise purchasing the car unless it was truly a pristine example that has been regularly maintained to the very highest standards.

Heaven knows Cadillacs of the mid '70s are complex enough as it is, let alone a Talisman which is likely to be highly equipped with a myriad of power accessories- nevermind the expertise required to tend FI. Especially nigh 40 year old FI with sensors, injectors, computers, special wiring harnesses, connectors, electric fuel pumps, pressure regulators etc etc etc.

If it's just an average example that's been sitting for some time.. frankly this is not a car I'd recommend for a newbie.

One man's opinion. 

[Gene Beaird]

Eric,

Agreed!  Without some mechanical skills, as well as electronic troubleshooting skills, one would be stepping into a money pit should things go south.  Most issues are not necessarily show stoppers, though, but yeah, a 70-74 vintage would probably be a better option, since they still have the great Cadillac drivetrain, yet lack the orphaned analog FI setup. 

I just wanted to point out there are solutions out there for one of these, should the OP decide to drop the dime. 

Unless the OP is a seasoned veteran, well versed in all the ins and outs of early FI, I would not advise purchasing the car unless it was truly a pristine example that has been regularly maintained to the very highest standards.

Heaven knows Cadillacs of the mid '70s are complex enough as it is, let alone a Talisman which is likely to be highly equipped with a myriad of power accessories- nevermind the expertise required to tend FI. Especially a nigh 40 year old FI with sensors, injectors, computers, special wiring harnesses, connectors, electric fuel pumps, pressure regulators etc etc etc.

If it's just an average example that's been sitting for sometime.. frankly this is not a car I'd recommend for a newbie.

One man's opinion.

[76eldo]

It's still a great car, and a very desirable model.  For ease of maintenence, one with a carb would be my preference, but you may have lots of trouble-free miles on it even with the injection.

If you do some tune-up work yourself or have a mechanic that can help you I wouldn't be afraid of it.

I had a 76 Fleetwood Brougham with injection and other than replacing the fast idle "valve" it ran great and had an amazing ride.

And... you could always sell it if it gives you trouble.  It's a rare car.

Brian

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Eric,

Agreed!  Without some mechanical skills, as well as electronic troubleshooting skills, one would be stepping into a money pit should things go south.  Most issues are not necessarily show stoppers, though, but yeah, a 70-74 vintage would probably be a better option, since they still have the great Cadillac drivetrain, yet lack the orphaned analog FI setup. 

I just wanted to point out there are solutions out there for one of these, should the OP decide to drop the dime.

Still waiting for the all-important pics; all else is pretty much moot. 

Gene: No need to go to '74 and prior. FI was only an option from 1975-1979 on the full size models and a fairly rare option at that...thankfully. Of course, one has no choice on a Seville on which it was standard. 

I should add back in the day early FI on Cadillacs (1975-1979) was considered a drawback. Hard start and/or no start (esp in very cold temps) and hesitation issues were often persistent enough resulting in many a frustrated owner having them swapped back to carbs (also no simple task) or more likely, trading them in on something else. The slight improvement in performance of FI was simply not worth the headaches.

By now however, I'm sure there are a good few dozen knowledgeable people who could fix them in their sleep.     

[Brent Hladky #21519]

Thank you all very much for your insight... greatly appreciated.  You are a huge part of what makes the CLC such a great organization!

I finally had the chance to have the car checked out and receive the pictures I needed.  I was told that the car does NOT have the dreaded EFI after all.  In a nutshell the car has:
- 45K miles
- excellent interior
- loaded with options all of which work with the exception of the a/c and electric front passenger seat
- rust at back of vinyl top on both sides and vinyl top has some issues
- Canadian east coast car in New Brunswick with a bit too much rust for me
- inferior respray
I have decided not to pursue it further, but maybe one of you do?  The gentleman selling the car is asking $8K Canadian or best offer and I have attached the link to the website below if you are interested.

http://cars.trovit.com/index.php/cod.frame/url.http%253A%252F%252Fwww.thebiglot.com%252Fad_auto.asp%253FWI%253D5107585338%2526ST%253DNB%2526VT%253DLC%2526PN%253D1%2526AT%253D1%2526PL%253D0%2526/id_ad.1k1O1e1x1Nl1mm/what_d.talisman/origin.2/section.1/section_type.1/pop.1

If anyone has any leads on a Talisman in better condition I'd be interested in checking them out.

Thanks again for all you help.

Brent