News:

Due to a technical issue, some recently uploaded pictures have been lost. We are investigating why this happened but the issue has been resolved so that future uploads should be safe.  You can also Modify your post (MORE...) and re-upload the pictures in your post.

Main Menu

1958 Radiator Hose clamps. Advise needed.

Started by johnregrus, May 02, 2013, 04:36:28 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

johnregrus

The Club's Authenticity manual states that Radiator hose clamps on a 1958 Cadillac should be "double wire" clamps.

I ordered a complete set of underhood clamps from McVey's and when they arrived they were all "single spring clamps".

I called McVey's back and was advised that double wire clamps ended in 1956 and all 1957/58 radiator hose clamps were to be single spring clamps. Cadillac then changed again in 1959 and started to  use "tower clamps".

Who is right the Authenticity manual or McVey's???

Thanks John
1958 Series 62
1956 Eldorado Biarritz

Grant Owen

From What I have seen on original 57's & 58's they seem to have Corbin Clamps (single wire), I know Mcveys don't have all there clamp kits correct I know the 59 kit they sell are all tower type on 59's the radiator hoses should be Tower but the Heater hoses should be Corbin Clamps (single wire).
I hope this helps.

Jon S

#2
Corbin clamps were used for the heater hoses, but if my memory serves correctly, the radiator hoses were indeed 2 wire.  I know my dad's had some type of worm gear type.  Be careful re: the restored engine bays - very few are correct.  My dad's 1958 was purchased new so with the exception of the battery, hoses and belts, it is 100% original.  (I still have one of the original belts - took it off for age reasons, but the reproduction ones are stamped incorrectly although the P/N is correct).
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

quadfins

Does someone have a shop manual? Often, photos in the Engine Chapter will show the radiator hoses & clamps.

Jim
Jim Eccleston
1961 Coupe de Ville
BATILAC
Senior Crown
DeCou Driving Award x 4

Jon S

I checked the 1957 and 1958 Supplement before posting my reply, above.  No pictures.

jon
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

Walter Youshock

This is where part of this issue started.  At the time the Authenticity Manual was being worked on. the Shop Manual was one of the references sited.  Drawings in the '57 Shop Manual and subsequent 1958 Supplement didn't provide enough detailed information.  18 years later, more information in the form of The Serviceman and other photos has become available.

Yes, it is time for a revision to the Authenticity Manual.  Anyone like to jump in as a contributing author?
CLC #11959 (Life)
1957 Coupe deVille
1991 Brougham

Bill Hedge CLC 14424

#6
I emailed Bill Andeerson, Director CLC Technical Services concerning this discussion.

According to Bill Anderson, Director, CLC Technical Services:  "the information about hose clamps in the 57-58 Authenticity Manual is partly in error. Extra effort is being made to obtain the correct information soon."



Jon S

Bill -

Would you please research what (if any) markings belong on the upper radiator hose.  The lower hose was enclosed in a sheath.  There were 2 upper hose varieties - one for AC and one for non-AC cars.
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

Grant Owen

If you look at all the high end restorations of other GM products (Corvette, Belair , Impala) of the same year they have used Corbin single wire ( these guys would get it correct). These clamps were troublesome & did tend to leak & were often changed even when the cars were fairly new.
GM didn't start using Tower type till 1958 on some makes while some Ford products in the mid 50's were using Tower Clamps.
Jon looking at my NOS 1959 Radiator hoses the makings are different on almost all of them .
Uppers Part Numbers either start in White or red with Group numbers underneath The Part numbers that start with GM are printed in white while the part numbers in Red start with CAD they also have a yellow or White stripe with S7 or G.7 in between.
The lowers differ again GM part number in White while CAD part number in Red some have a large red part number with no group number printed underneath some have a broken white line with nothing in between while other have a broken white line with LS & S7 on them.
The part numbers & lines on them are in different locations as well , although these are different to the hoses you are looking for the info on it just shows that any printing or markings on them will differ.

Bill Hedge CLC 14424

Jon:

I have emailed Bill Anderson your question.  When a respnse is recieved, I will post it here.

Bill Hedge, CLC #14424
Message Board Administrator
Cadillac & La Salle Club

Bill Hedge CLC 14424

From Bill Aderson:

"After careful research using recently discovered materials, the Committee for the 1957-1958 Authenticity Manual has determined the following. An Errata Sheet containing the following information will be provided to all future purchasers of that Manual.

HOSE CLAMPS - 1957 & 1958 Cadillacs

On 1957 Cadillacs, Tower Top hose clamps are used on the upper and lower radiator hoses. They are also used on heater hose connections at the water pump connections. All other heater hose clamps are of the single wire or Corbin type clamps. As of May 2013, CLC is unable to provide a definitive answer regarding factory practice for radiator and heater hose clamps for 1958 Cadillacs. It is reasoned that Cadillac may have continued the hose clamp practices of 1957 in 1958. There is one reported instance of an "original" 1958 car having double-wire clamps on the radiator hoses and single-wire clamps on all heater hose connections.

In 1957 and 1958 Side Screw double band type clamps were used on the non-pressurized return oil line of the power steering pump.

William C. "Bill" Anderson
Director, CLC Technical Services"


Grant Owen

I am in complete disagreement look at section 9 of 1957 work shop manual connections on water pump Corbin single wire clamps.
After extensive searching I knew I had one ,I have found an original Top radiator hose taken off an original 1957 Cadillac many years ago.
The marks on it show that the clamps used were single wire Corbin, it has a very faint part number in Red  ( beginning with CAD ) with a broken White line on the under side .
When I get around to doing the Engine bay on my 57 Eldorado I will be using Corbin single wire clamps as I am sure this is correct. 
( please note I am only referring to 1957 ).




Jon S

Grant -

My second cousin purchased a 1957 Fleetwood new and I do remember it having single corbin clamps on the heater hoses for sure and I believe on the upper and lower radiator hoses as well.  In 1958, Cadillac changed the clamp type.  I believe they utilized a worm gear type with lots more solid stainless area than the "Ideal" clamps have with their teeth all around.  If I'm correct, those same clamps are still on the car.  When I get to the garage, I'll see what markings/manufacturer are on the clamps.

Jon
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

Jon S

Got the car out today.  I believe these are the original factory clamps (re-used) that came on the 1958 my dad purchased brand new. They are made by Ideal, but as described previously they have significantly more solid stainless surface area than aftermarket Ideal clamps with their many cutouts for the worm  gear adjustment.  Also notice they have a round slotted screw; no hex head/slot like aftermarkets:

Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

Jon S

#14
Quote from: Bill Hedge CLC 14424 on May 09, 2013, 11:51:45 PM
From Bill Aderson:

"After careful research using recently discovered materials, the Committee for the 1957-1958 Authenticity Manual has determined the following. An Errata Sheet containing the following information will be provided to all future purchasers of that Manual.

HOSE CLAMPS - 1957 & 1958 Cadillacs

On 1957 Cadillacs, Tower Top hose clamps are used on the upper and lower radiator hoses. They are also used on heater hose connections at the water pump connections. All other heater hose clamps are of the single wire or Corbin type clamps. As of May 2013, CLC is unable to provide a definitive answer regarding factory practice for radiator and heater hose clamps for 1958 Cadillacs. It is reasoned that Cadillac may have continued the hose clamp practices of 1957 in 1958. There is one reported instance of an "original" 1958 car having double-wire clamps on the radiator hoses and single-wire clamps on all heater hose connections.

In 1957 and 1958 Side Screw double band type clamps were used on the non-pressurized return oil line of the power steering pump.

William C. "Bill" Anderson
Director, CLC Technical Services"

Bill -

I just posted pictures of the original 1958 radiator clamps, above.  Attached shows the same type of clamp (smaller version) used for the heater hoses (again, notice they have a round slotted screw; no hex head/slot like aftermarkets) and a special clamp used for the non-pressurized return oil line of the power steering.  This is an original 88,000 mile purchased new automobile I'm citing:

Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

Grant Owen

Jon, the hose clamps in your pictures you posted are not correct apart from the power steering hose clamp. Looking at the pictures they look like the "stainless" type used for marine applications in the 60's 70's. I cant see any reason why GM would use these type of clamps for one year only & only in Cadillacs. You say the car is an original 88,000 mile car any car with that milage would have had the hose clamps replaced at some time.

Jon S

#16
Grant -

Agreed and I know the entire history of the car.  The original clamps were re-used.  These are the third set of radiator hoses on the car - I changed them myself 5 years ago when I had the radiator boiled out and helped my dad change them once before that.  The car has been in the family since 8/1958 and my dad and I did 99% of the repairs ourselves.  Beyond the 90 day/3,000 mile warranty, the car never saw Cadillac Service or any other Service beyond tire and battery changes.  Why do you think these are "marine" clamps?

Jon
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

Jon S

I do remember my dad comparing the quality of the Cadillac clamps to the what he referred to as cheaper squeeze clamps (Corbin) used by GM on his 1959 Pontiac.
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

Grant Owen

Jon, the clamps look exactly like the clamps I have seen on old marine engines from the late 60's 70's. I also dont think GM used any stainless clamps in 58. Was this type of clamp available any where in 58 ? .

Jon S

Grant -

I'm only posting information to assist others on this board.  These are the clamps my dad's late production 1958 came with from the factory.  This is an unmolested car as are all of my others.  I have no knowledge of marine clamps or their availability.  I will be rebuilding my friends Rochester 4GC in the next month or so.  His 1958 convertible is 100% untouched and still has the original hoses/clamps on it.  I'll take pictures of his setup when I see it.

Jon
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT