Original or Mild Coustom?

[Retro_Husky]

I was curious about what people think of modifying Cadillac's. For instance lets say you have an original car, would this be a cardinal sin? I'm tossing the back and forth in my head about the idea. I know originality is great for value and preservation. However, having a modern stuff underneath and the same original look would be nice. In the sense that there would be less issues of breaking down, tiresome maintenance, and depending on the mods easier to find parts, better performance and the like.

I like the idea, but with that being said I think it takes away the excrescence of driving(and owning) a classic car of any kind. Even if the mods benefit the car entirely. What does everyone think? I know its a bit of a conversational topic, but I would like to know from the people who actually own Classics...

[dirtycustom40]

Do it for yourself,who cares what everyone else thinks.Life is short its just a car.

[RyanBurman]

You came to the wrong site for this question. I like all cars from stock to wild. But this is a restoration and stock car forum so any answers will be geared towards keeping the car stock. The important thing to remember is that the car is yours and no one else can lay claim to it. So do what makes you happy with it!

[Louis Smith]

You came to the wrong site for this question. I like all cars from stock to wild. But this is a restoration and stock car forum so any answers will be geared towards keeping the car stock.

Hmmm.......somewhat presumptuous of you. I was always under the impression that this was an open forum and all opinions are welcomed.  While I might agree that many if not most on this forum fit into the "purists" group, I think the tide is slowly changing.  This is not to say that, eventually this will be a greatly "modified" club.  I am merely implying that "modifieds" are gaining in popularity and acceptability. 

[C.R. Patton II]

Hello Tim

Palpitating topic with various viewpoints.

I concur with Louis. I personally prefer my vehicles as authentic but I admire and appreciate the creativity and ingenuity of the modified Cadillacs.

Be smart-ask your wife.

[Gene Beaird]

Go for it!  I'm one of those who enjoys bolt-on mods, or redstmods, myself. While I can see someone who recreates the assembly line chalk marks, there is a lot to be said about anyone who keeps older cars on the road. We got our Seville from a friend who was going to drop a LS engine & drivetrain in a Seville. He found a much nicer 76 to execute the project on, so we both got what we wanted.

If the engine craps in our Seville, then we may source a 403 for it.  Otherwise, I'm all for improving the handling, and enjoying the car. You should do so, too!

But I do have problems with someone who would drop a BBC in one of these cars when a 472 is a better choice. :-)

[Ken Perry's Photography]

I agree with many of the other members posts. I myself like prefer them to look stock but I love a good custom too. On the other hand, this is just a little to far. All though, this is the most classy off road vehicle I've ever seen.

[INTMD8]

having a modern stuff underneath and the same original look would be nice.

This is the direction I'm taking my Brougham.

Just know you must go to great lengths/expense to keep the original styling while modernizing the car.

[gary griffin]

Hi Tim

   I have a foot in both camps. I love original cars and modified also. For Cadillacs there has a "Modified Chapter" and they have some really nice slightly modified and some wildly modified.

   I see no problem with modification of a 1957 Chevrolet for example because there are thousands of them but I would have a problem with a modified Tucker with only 57 produced for example.  To modify a 1953 Eldorado would be a sin?

   I am also in favor of safety modifications such as seat belts, dual master cylinders, modern radial tires and so forth but keeping the basic mechanical's stock or nearly stock.

   I have a friend in Oregon with an apparently stock 1942 Cadillac but the interior is more modern with power seats, air conditioning and 500 engine and
power brakes. It is a sweet car as far as I am concerned.

   I planned on doing a non standard restoration  to my 1942  -  6719  but after I reviewed the authenticity manual I changed my mind and am doing an authentic (Except for dual master cylinders for safety)

    I restored a Lil Red Express Dodge truck which was the fastest vehicle made in the USA n 1978  and 1979 and did a very authentic restoration except for about 100 extra horse power.

    Never intending to sell my old vehicles I am not interested in resale value (My kids will have to do that so it is their problem).

    In the end if you buy a car it is yours and you can do what you want to do but consider the rarity of the car before you change it too much please!!!!

[Jim Stamper]

     I don't think you mention what the year is of your Cadillac/ LaSalle. There are dozens of modified Cadillacs and LaSalles for sale at any given time. Hemmings, Ebay, ClassiicCars.com, Cars on line, Old Car Trader, and so on. Dozens of sites and dealers. You might want to check some of those cars out and perhaps even talk to some of the sellers. You might find a much less expensive Cadillac ride that you can get right into and use. You might want to ask the sellers why they are selling. Were they disappointed with the alterations because the reality didn't match the dream? The car became something in between fish and fowl?

     I have found a credit card and my collection of 800 numbers can get me about anything I need for my pre-war cars, usually overnight if I want to pay the additional postage.

     In my earlier years I modified a number of cars, and I would have to say, for the most part what I hoped would be gains in performance were usually offset by losses of a more intangeable nature, but very real in any case.

     I now look at my participation in the old car hobby as one of a caretaker of our history and enjoy them for what they really are, slices of America representing an age gone by.

                            Jim Stamper   CLC#13470

[TonyZappone #2624]

I too am a believer in preserving history.  I watch people all around me in the hobby making changes to cars that could have been used quite effectively.  For example, the 346 flatheads drove tanks all through world war II, and that hydramatic v8 combination was bullet proof after the war.  If maintained to proper specs, these cars will travel as well, and as comfortably as a modern car.  There are those people (Boyd Coddington) for example, who reveled in tearing up cars that would have been so appreciated by those who did not have the funds to own a more prestigious collector car.  ( I recall a model T barn find that he destroyed the drive train) and did so, or so it seemed, with almost a certain amount of glee.  I avoid car shows that have a large number of rods.  There is nothing there for me, but the unchristian disdain that I seem to develop at those functions.
Some will say, it is my or your car, do with it what you wish.  Of course, this is true.  However, I am thankful that many people do not think this way.  It seemed from the forum that most of the people who favor rodding were not club members.  However, that is another story.

[INTMD8]

I was curious about what people think of modifying Cadillac's. For instance lets say you have an original car, would this be a cardinal sin? I'm tossing the back and forth in my head about the idea.

I'll take a bit more time to offer my opinion and perspective.

I think the majority of this club would prefer to see preservation and originality. I understand that and do appreciate a nice original car.  Having owned many original cars however I do prefer to drive cars that appear original but have modernized components.

It comes down to preference. I think some want to get into their classic and have it be like a time machine where it drives exactly like they have always remembered it.  Things I view as functional improvement would not be enjoyed by this type of person as the car becomes less familiar.

So, a couple of examples. The first not relevant to Cadillac but an original 1970 Malibu. Had the old car styling and feel, of course it would as it's all original.  When I was finished with it the car sounded and appeared original (unless the hood was opened), got 20mpg on the highway and had over 600 rear wheel horsepower with a turbocharged fuel injected Escalade engine and 4 speed overdrive trans. In my opinion, nothing was lost on this car. It was a blast to drive, very quiet and trouble free.. Climbing behind the wheel and driving it still gave me that vintage car feel. Here's a video I took to give an idea of how something like this can drive. You can hear how quiet the car is, in comparison to even the turn signal flasher. At around the 5min mark I floored it from a dead stop. Very quick (speedometer can't keep up) but still relatively quiet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYOranMxa4o





I decided to apply the same principles to a Brougham but needed to kick it up a notch. I'm in love with the style of the car but would be happier with more power, better handling/braking and less maintenance. Again, I know there are some very well sorted original cars but I just don't want to maintain multiple carburetion, air suspension and other older systems.

Appearance, other than under the hood will be very close to original. I had a new chassis built. Modern auto-leveling air suspension, twin turbo Escalade engine with 4 speed overdrive trans. 4 wheel disc brakes. New wheels made to fit over the brakes.  Front and rear 3pt seat belts. Front and rear heat and air conditioning. It's a work in progress and will take several more years to complete. I'm certain I will love the car when finished, based off of how much I enjoyed driving the Malibu.  Some would say I'm ruining the car. In terms of originality I certainly have but I think the car can still be timeless if all original styling is preserved.

Going into it, know that some will not be pleased with your decision to deviate from original. Also know that if approached tastefully the end result can be very enjoyable.

Chassis-


Gauges-


Brakes-



Wheels-





Those are just a few examples. If you're going to modify a car you need to have goals and a plan to meet them. Don't compromise or in the end you will not be happy.

-Jim

[cadillacmike68]

As you can see, Tim, there are lot of opinions here ranging from the absolute purists who will hang you up by the nearest yardarm for so much as a trim color deviation, to those who will change pout the entire drive-train, and make radical alterations to the body.

Me, I like keeping it mostly stock. My year range interest is 1968-76, mostly 68-70, so I don't need to worry about climate control, brakes, oil system, fuel system, or ignition system modifications, as these were already quite refined by 1968. 

On the other hand, I got addicted very early to a stand up hood ornament, so every vintage Cadillac I have from this era is going to have one and the purists can,  well, let's keep this civil. In the same vein, anyone who doesn't like my window tint, which is needed in FL to keep the sun from destroying the interior, well, I invite them to stand in the sun for 8 hours here.

I prefer for my car not to spout leaks after a few hours of operation, so i use modern hoses and the stainless steel worm clamps on the heater and radiator hoses, and I had the climate control and power steering lines professionally braided to protect them from the intense heat under the hood. I like my rock n roll, so i added an under dash cassette w CD changer (but the original AM radio also works). I also like the tires to not fall apart on a several hundred mile drive in the FL summer, so I use speed rated radial tires. I'm sure the authenticity police would have a field day - oh wait they already did last year. I don't care. It's my car, it look great, (it has all of its original trim) and usually runs great.

Enjoy your car(s).

[Greg Powers]

As many have mentioned it really depends on the Cadillac. If the car is a low mileage original that has beeen well preserved or if it may also be a rare offerring I think that you should preserve the car or sell it to some one who will. On the other hand if it is in need of a good deal of work and not a unique or rare model I still prefer stock restoration but realize that you're at least saving the Cadillac from the salvage yard with custom work. - Preserving the past for future generations - Greg

[R Schroeder]

Hey Jim, both of your cars shown here are top notch cars. What a beautiful job your doing on the 57.
That Chevy must be a real kick to drive.
Roy

[Retro_Husky]

Alot of interesting points of view here.

Personally I'd rather keep Marylin original. However it was the most produced car of that year(1947) And while it is in decent shape for being roughly 85% original(repaint in the 60's and the seats being recovered). I know that keeping the looks down to a T and doing modern modifications is not an easy or cheap task. I have seen it done to a few 47 sedans, and with poor taste in my eye's. Its a hard decision to make, and I don't think my wallet is deep enough. The idea of doing it right though is appealing.  Just to show how it should be done I guess... well with that being said I guess we all have our own idea of doing things. None the less, I have even thought of just taking the frame off, having a new one built and keeping the old drive train in case I ever wanted to switch it back to its original drive train. If I do deiced to go down this road I know its going to be a long one, and I will be scrutinized by purists of all kinds, but again its just more of an idea than a plan for now.

What brought this up in my head was, living in Colorado we have, well mountains... and alot of them. The old gal dosen't really like to go up them and has a harder time stopping when going down. The motor runs hot almost all the time and because of the fuel pump being where it is, she constantly vapor locks when the temp goes above 180 degrees. I know there are some ways to combatant these problems, And I am working on some as the days go by. However this wont stop these issues. I know, I know its apart of owning a classic car, but does it really have to be?

I have always been in love with classic Cadillacs, and classic cars in general. I love history, and cars show how we have progressed throughout the years. I finally got my own, and while I'm not trying to make it look like I am disappointed by my find. Of which I am not. I am just thinking of ways to make it better, and more enjoyable in these modern times, without taking away from what she is... a Cadillac

Also I really dig that Brougham. Nice job with the wheels, and brakes!

[linchero]

Heres what I did.

[RyanBurman]

Sorry for my opening post about this not being the place for this but I was going based the young people and cadillacs thread where it seemed there was a few people who very strongly oppose modified Cadillacs and were not very nice about it. Just trying to save you some headache. I really love all of them. I prefer modified but I appreciate all the work that goes into a stocker also.  There were a few posts this time around against them but not too many.It's your car do what you want! As for the vapor lock run an electric fuel pump and keep the fuel line away from the engine as much as possible. Keep your fuel lines away from any kind of heat source also if possible. This alone should make the car more enjoyable. The brake issue on the other hand may require some modifications. It's way better to be safe than stock and in your situation hills are not time to have fading drums.

[Jay Friedman]

I guess you'd call me a "purist", though I find the term is frequently used a bit disdainfully by modifiers.  I prefer the term "restorer" to describe those like poster Tony Zappone who share my point of view. 

I have owned a '49 Club Coupe 29 years which is stock in every way.  Well, there are exceptions: 1. even though my stock AM radio works perfectly, because my favorite radio station is FM I installed an underdash AM-FM radio; 2. I have installed seat belts and use a roundish '41 gear shift knob rather than the spear-shaped '49 knob for safety reasons.

I drive my car everywhere, including more 15 or so long highway trips to CLC Grand Nationals and elsewhere up to 1,200 miles from home.   My main point here is that I enjoy it in every way and my enjoyment is only increased by the satisfaction of knowing I do so with 6 volts, a 2-barrel carburetor, stock ignition, bias ply tires and all its other "non-modern" features.  (I must admit that air conditioning would be nice but I've learned to endure summer drives without it.)  I've only suffered one break down on the road in all these years (generator armature failure) which was fixed without too much grief.  '49 Cad parts are plentiful so I've never been unable to find a spare part for it, plus looking for them on ebay, at Hershey and elsewhere is part of the fun. 

As for those who modify their Cadillacs, as several poster have said "it's your car so do what you like to it".  However, it's my impression that a common thread among those who favor modifying their older Cadillacs is that they under-estimate the car's reliability and capabilities.  As Tony said, the 346 engine with Hydramatic, severely tested in WW II, is "bullet-proof".  My '49 with a 331 overhead-valve engine is the same (though it has stick shift which is even more "bullet-proof").  As such, I feel that any Cadillac from the late 1930s onward is capable of cruising at modern highway speeds and if all its systems are in good condition is no more or less prone to break downs than a modern car.  Yes, engines last longer today, probably because computerized fuel and ignition systems are easier on the internal parts than points ignition and carburetors with chokes, but the fact that a modern car will go 200K miles rather than 100K is irrelevant to our hobby cars which are driven relatively few miles per year.  In my opinon if you want a car with modern features, get yourself a modern car or at least a Cadillac from the late 1960s onward which is hardly different from anything newer.

[Retro_Husky]

In time when everything is gone over I know she will be nearly as reliable as a modern car. I couldn't agree more with keeping her original. Again just more or less an idea I was shooting out there. When it comes down to it I have way more fun tracking down parts and working on the car itself than I would if it were all modern. If it were all modern to, it would just be another car with some good looks. Plus the time I would spend just to modify the whole thing I could build a whole car from scratch at that point. Why tear up an original car, it just feels wrong. I'm sure once I get the hard stuff outta the way these thoughts will fade, but for now its just a silly dream of what it could be if... Perhaps its a part of being young I guess.

That aside... I like both stock, and mod. However, again I guess I consider myself more of a "purist". If I did ever modify the old gal, it would probably only go as far as putting some replica wire wheels on. Or maybe having a leather interior fitted with the button tuck, and putting a spotlight on. As far as AC goes I could care less. Yes its nice to have, but its just another thing to maintain. The 6 volt system isn't all that bad. The only time I have issues is when its cold outside. As long as the generator is working fine, and the battery is good you have nothing to worry about really. I will say it does kinda suck I can't charge my phone in the car... thats probably the only draw back, with that being said thats probably a good thing anyway. I would just be more tempted to use it while behind the wheel.