News:

Due to a technical issue, some recently uploaded pictures have been lost. We are investigating why this happened but the issue has been resolved so that future uploads should be safe.  You can also Modify your post (MORE...) and re-upload the pictures in your post.

Main Menu

Setting timing

Started by waterzap, June 15, 2013, 12:25:13 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

waterzap

Having the worst time setting the timing. The previous owner rebuilt the engine, so the timing marks do not line up at all. I did find tdc by using a stop bolt. Even with the new tcd mark, the timing is way off. Around 20 btc. I just set the timing, test drive, make sure there are no knocks, and readjust. Is there a better way to set the timing?
The previous owner might have put in some wilder cams. Could that be what is affecting the timing?
Leesburg, AL

Mike Josephic CLC #3877

I once had a used car (1971 Buick) many years ago that I bought for daily transportation.

Some work had been done on it and the pointer on the engine that was used to line up the timing mark on the harmonic balancer was missing -- broken off.  In this instance, a timing light was useless.

I did pretty much what you are doing.  I had a nearby hill where I could run the vehicle up at about 35-40 MPH.  I advanced the timing a little at a time until it just started to ping, then backed it off ever so slightly until the pinging stopped.  The car ran fine for years.

I'm sure a "pro mechanic" would have a more sophisticated way to do it but this worked for me.  Keep using the same octane rating of gas that you set the timing with.

Mike
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

David Greenburg

Try setting the timing using a vacuum gauge.  I have found this to be the easiest way to set timing on older cars even if the timing marks are aligned.  Hook up a vacuum gauge, and turn the distributor until you hit the maximum vacuum reading, and then back it off 1" .  If it pings, you might need to turn it back slightly more, but 1" is the sweet spot for most cars. Thats it.  I was taught this trick by an old school mechanic when I was driving back and forth from school in Colorado  to the east coast, as it takes altitude into account.   
David Greenburg
'60 Eldorado Seville
'61 Fleetwood Sixty Special

cadillacmike68

If the owner put in a hotter camshaft, even correctly aligned marks aren't going to help much.  I would manually align the #1 piston at TDC, and make a new 0 notch there on the pulley. I'd then make BTDC notches at 3, 5, and 10 degrees.

Remember you have to disconnect and plug the vacuum advance, and disconnect the climate control to get a proper idle speed timing reading.

Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike

R Schroeder

I guess my questions would be ;
What type of car are we talking about here?
What are you doing before you time the car ?
Isnt there a data plate on the front part of the engine compartment , that gives you the spec's ?
Are you saying your missing the pointer down by the timing marks ?
Not sure what you mean by using a stop bolt to find TDC.
Roy

waterzap

Thanks guys. This will give me enough to work with. This is for my Eldorado, and I do have the factory specs. However, when I try to set the timing according to that, the car wont run. I can only guess the cams are different. The stop bolt is just a bolt you put in cylinder 1. Then when you turn the engine by hand, it will stop at a point. Make a mark on the harmonic balancer. Turn the engine the other way around, another mark. Half way between those marks isTDC. TDC is also way off any original marks.
I installed a new distributor. Stupid me should have looked at the timing before I did that. I just thought everything would line up.
Leesburg, AL

R Schroeder

#6
The timing mark will come around twice.
Once on the exhaust stroke, and once on the compression stroke. There is no half way. If you are half way, you are at the bottom of the piston stroke.
You need to check the timing marks on the compression stroke. Get it to TDC on compression stroke.
Then place the distributor in the engine pointing to the number one cylinder wire on distributor cap.
Sounds like you have something wrong there.
Roy

Are you sure your on the correct cylinder for setting up the distributor .
Below is a chart.


http://www.autozone.com/autozone/repairinfo/repairguide/repairGuideContent.jsp?pageId=0900c152801c8244

The Tassie Devil(le)

Don't forget that you have to time the distributor with the vacuum off and plugged.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

R Schroeder

My 425 in my 78 , you also have to plug off the EGR valve.

Roy

waterzap

Well, think I got it. Drove around with a wrench, and basically adjusted while listening to the engine. Weird thing is, I get the best timing at 0 TDC while idle. Around 7.5 at 1400. If I advance any more, I get the grrrrrr sound when going uphill. Did plug the vacuum and egr when setting the timing. Also disconnected other vacuums. So no leaks.
Leesburg, AL

TJ Hopland

I had an engine that I and a buddy rebuilt and it acted like you are describing.   I did what you did and just drove around with a wrench till it ran decent.  I think 0 according to the mark was where it seemed happy so I just left it there.   Not long later the oil pump sized and I had to tear it apart again and replace some stuff including the timing set.  I remember having issues when we were trying to degree the cam originally but was fairly sure we had got it correct.  That was with the fancy cloyes roller chain set.   I accidentally ordered a stock type chain the second time that has no options for timing (got it from MTS so it should be good quality).  We degreed  that one too and it just came out right and we did not seem to confuse ourselves like last time.  Fired it up and the timing now appeared to set closer to factory specs and I was running way way rich.   Only thing I figure is that I must have messed up the cam timing.     
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

waterzap

#11
I think my timing light is acting strange. Today my timimg is 10 degrees different from yesterday!!!
Nothing changed. Car still runs the same.  Distributor was tight. So strange. Ordered a new one.
Leesburg, AL

TJ Hopland

Are you clamping on near the distributor or down by the plug?   I have noticed that my cheap sun pro one works fine up by the distributor but the fancy digital snap on one has to be down by the plugs or it will apparently pick up the signal from other wires.  I also use #4 since its more convenient since you are standing on that side anyway also keeps the wire out of the fan.   
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

waterzap

#13
I actually had an old cheap one that you had to put between the plugs and the wires. From all the plugging and unplugging the boot tore, the wire came out of the clamp that holds it to the plug, and of course I burnt my fingers many times.

Ordered a nice Equus 5568. Built in tach and dwell. So dont have to look at two things.
Of course UPS delivered the package to the wrong address apparently. And now trying to get my light. Fun never ends.

I think my timing is close, just by driving around and setting it that way.
Leesburg, AL