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1959 air-ride

Started by 60eldo, July 08, 2013, 09:17:38 AM

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60eldo

   Im wondering where I could get information on 59-60 air ride. Whos the best person to contact for buying air bags and all components. installation. Anyone have any names? thanks
Jon. Klu

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#1
Try Mastermind?

http://www.mastermindinc.net/1957-60%20CADILLAC%20Air%20Suspension.htm

**Just noticed- rebuilding compressor is $1,000 - 1,350. Yikes.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

76eldo

To keep the car original and have an original air ride system requires a lot of hunting and a lot of expense.

Is your car on air bags or springs currently?

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

60eldo

#3
  No, my car 1960 Seville, had most of the stuff taken out and is riding on springs now. The reason Im asking is cause I have alot of stuff from a 1959 car . 4 air bags, used in their pots, 2 control arms , 2 PS air compressors, and some valves. But if its gonna be expensive to restore maybe I will just forget it.
Jon. Klu

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#4
Quote from: 76eldo on July 08, 2013, 06:04:22 PM
To keep the car original and have an original air ride system requires a lot of hunting and a lot of expense.

...and heartache, aggravation and brain damage. And after all that, it'll still sink down within a week - no matter what you do. (Most can't even make it through a single car show.)

While I have nothing but the utmost admiration & respect for anyone willing to expend the time, energy and resource necessary to put an original air suspension system right, I would never , ever have it done.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Dave Shepherd

Quote from: ericdev on July 08, 2013, 06:53:32 PM
...and heartache, aggravation and brain damage. And after all that, it'll still sink down within a week - no matter what you do. (Most can't even make it through a single car show.)

While I have nothing but the utmost admiration & respect for anyone willing to expend the time, energy and resource necessary to put an original air suspension system right, I would never , ever have it done.
Seconded, they were problematic when new, many were converted in the 1st 5 years!

76eldo

I had a 60 Eldo that had the system complete, original, and fully working, and it drove like a dream.
Pics below show some info on the car, and one photos with the service switch activated with the car raised as high as the bags allow it to go.  Great when they work...

BUT... You will really have to spend a LOT of time putting one back together that's been converted.

Just not worth the ag.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

David Greenburg

Having heard all the stories, and having lived with an air-suspended Mercedes for a number of years, I specifically avoided cars still on air when shopping for my Seville.  Yes, theres nothing like the ride/handling of an air car, if its  working right, but that's a big if!
David Greenburg
'60 Eldorado Seville
'61 Fleetwood Sixty Special

gouldsom

I have a 59 on Air ride, totally rebuilt it, best thing done, was installing BUSHES in the levelling valves.
Second best thing was screwing a gas ( not gasoline), tap on the bottom of the storage tank, and on the end of that, a air compressor line, so I can top up the system, with my compressor, and not have to start the car.
I just open the tap on the bottom of the tank, every once in a while for a couple of seconds. This blows any water out of the tank, very important.
I also have a good selection of NOS parts, including a NOS air compressor, still in the box.
Car has been on air for 18 months, and has never really sagged much, I start the engine every month, just to warm up the engine, and top up the storage tank.
When I first got the system going, I was scared stiff, the bags would burst, or it would spring a leak and collapse, when it while I was driving. Now I am totally relaxed, car rides like a magic carpet, AND, backing out on the road or steep drives just pull the air ride handle and lift the car up.
I'm not saying its a good or reliable system, but anyone with any practical knowledge about mechanics, can keep it maintained.
Hope this helps
Richard

59-in-pieces

Every 59 I have ever bought - or worked on for that matter - had been converted to springs.
Every 59 I have ever bought - or worked on for that matter - had been converted to springs.
So I suspect that there is an obvious reason for that, and the comments of other contributors = the system sucks.
However, I don't want to be a contrarian, but I have always wanted to put one of my cars back on bags.
And yes I might be a masochist, or maybe just someone who enjoys the challenge.
So if anyone who has a nasty, "worthless", left over, crummy ol'system that wants to ship it my way - I'll pay the shipping - I would love to give it a go to make one work like Richard's car.
Have fun,
Steve B.
S. Butcher

Eldovert

I wonder if one could use some of the air suspension components that are being made for the hot rod crowd ? Perhaps utilizing the modern components below with the stock look on the topside and still use the compressor under the hood.
Cheers,Pat MacPhail

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#11
I would think the collector is more likely to take more issue with a car that had its air suspension restored with inauthentic/incorrect components than one that had been converted to spring suspension while the car was still in its prime.

The '59 Coupe deVille I owned was also originally air suspended but had long been converted to conventional many decades before- for which I was grateful.

I have never known conversion from air suspension to conventional to negatively impact collectability or investment potential on a given example 1958-1960 Cadillac model years in which it was offered. From a market value perspective, it appears the merits between original working air suspension and vastly increased reliability & freedom from worry - both present & future - of converted system - are so evenly balanced that any value difference is negligibly small in the majority of cases.

Unless a 99+ pt show car or a #1 perfect original - were talking the topmost 1% cars extant- the presence of original working air suspension may have some degree of impact. Then again, such examples are so rare and so coveted today, it's difficult to imagine one rejecting such a car on the basis of the conversion alone. 

Anyone considering returning a converted car back to original should not do so in the expectation of economic reward- for there will be none. But by all means do so if you truly prize & enjoy your Cadillac the most- only when taken to the highest attainable levels of preservation AND have the talent and skills AND/OR the disposable funds that will be necessary to keep the system in proper working order in the years to come.   

My 2 cents.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

eldo59

#12
Riding on air in a 50+ year old car is something that must be experienced to be truly appreciated. It really is like riding a magic carpet.
I feel very privileged and humbled owning one these car's with it's air suspension still intact and working the way GM intended it 5 decades on.
As for reinstalling air ride back on a car. It would take someone with a lot of skill, know how and patience. Plus about $10,000 worth of very hard to find parts.
Mauro Bonfitto

76eldo

When I had the 1960 Biarritz I was told by a guy that deals in 59's and 60's all day long that if the car has working air ride its worth 3-4 thousand dollars more than one on springs.

I didn't see that making much difference when I was selling the car.

It's a different feel and really makes the car a joy to drive.
Too bad the technology of the era wasn't quite there and the systems were removed due to problems with reliability.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

59-in-pieces

Mauro,
"As for reinstalling air ride back on a car. It would take someone with a lot of skill, know how and patience. Plus about $10,000 worth of very hard to find parts."
OK, I was fitting the bill right up until the $10,000.  Not sure if you are trying to sell a system or just through out a figure to be a BUZZ KILL.
Brian,
The estimate of only a $3K - $4K return on Mauro's $10K investment doesn't seem not to be a good return for a cloud-like ride.
Another cold buck of water on my dream.
Thanks guys,
Have fun,
Steve
S. Butcher

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

Brian,
It wasn't that the technology was not available. Buses, trucks and even trains were successfully running on air suspensions then and still are.  It was that the "bean counters" in corporate dictated that the system be economically produced.  Their idea of economically was (in one specific case) a level control valve used successfully in trucks and buses which cost around $40.00 be replaced with one costing less than $5.00.  Imagine trying to build a space shuttle with those kinds of restrictions.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#16
The technology was available however costs associated in building anything must also be closely monitored, lest it become so expensive that nobody would buy it.

It is an omnipresent condition of the business world which management must reconcile in order for an enterprise to remain profitable.

The cost of air suspension back in the day was $215 IIRC which would be the equivalent of ~$1,700 in today's money. 
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

76eldo

I guess I should have said reliability, not technology.

Everything else is so overbuilt and heavy on the 59-60's, it's amazing that they used a cheap part to regulate the air.  The compressor is big, I heard that one problem was the moisture that became trapped in the system due to the air being compressed.  I would imagine that lines would freeze in cold weather.

The one I had worked well, but the car would bleed down in 2 days.  It pumped right back up when you started the car.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Walter Youshock

I think using air was a major part of the failures.  Had they used a closed system with a gas such as a Freon derivative may have made more sense.  No moisture entering the system and a relatively stable temperature under all weather conditions.  The storage tanks had to be drained of accumulated moisture from time to time on the air system.  How many people actually did that?

Then again, you were supposed to trade your car every 2 or 3 years anyway by which time it was somebody else's problem.
CLC #11959 (Life)
1957 Coupe deVille
1991 Brougham

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#19
The technology for A/S use in passenger car being relatively fresh, such teething problems should be expected.

If the market really valued the improved ride for the extra $2K (present dollars) per copy, the option would've remained viable long after 1960 and R & D refinements over time no doubt would have improved reliability. But as it turned out, better ride could be achieved far more cost-effectively without the need for such complexity, expense and increased potential for failure.   

In the late 1980s & early 1990s, both Lincoln & Imperial attempted to revive A/S- with dubious commercial success - and continued to be problematic.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute