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Late 60s Cadillac Eldorado Front Wheel Drive

Started by Coupe Deville, July 11, 2013, 06:56:01 PM

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Coupe Deville

Someone has explained to me before how the late 60s Eldorado V8 front wheel drive worked but not in great depth. I was wondering if someone could further educate me about it. If you had any pictures too that would be great. Thank You
-Gavin Myers CLC Member #27431
"The 59' Cadillac says more about America than a whole trunk full of history books, It was the American Dream"

The Tassie Devil(le)

G'day Gavin,

Firstly, the Torque Converter is at the rear of the engine, the Transmission sits down beside the engine, facing forward, with the Differential in front of that.

The power is transferred from the Torque Converter to the transmission via a 3" wide Morse Chain, and the trans to the diff by a direct coupling.   The axles then pass out to the wheels vis extra heavy duty Tri-pot and CV Joints.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Coupe Deville

Thank you very much i have always wanted to know about that.
-Gavin Myers CLC Member #27431
"The 59' Cadillac says more about America than a whole trunk full of history books, It was the American Dream"

Glen

 I believe this is an Oldsmobile engine but the trans and final drive are the same. 

Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

TJ Hopland

The transmission layout is very similar to the transverse FWD stuff.  Typical transverse stuff has the differential as an integral part of the transmission case and the drive axles stick out each end.   The E body the transmission internals were mostly identical to the THM400 except for obvious things like the pump and torque converter being 'remoted'.   The differential or final drive bolted to the end of the transmission.   There was then a special oil pan with a notch in it to allow the right drive shaft to extend under the engine to get to the other side of the car.    The front suspension and drive shafts are almost identical to the 1990's era GM 4x4 trucks and used a torsion bar setup for the front springs.

Toronado got the FWD treatment in 66, the Eldo in 67.  Rivera was also and E body but did not go FWD till the big downsize in 79.  66-70 was basically considered GEN 1.  These were a little more sporty looking than the later ones.  There were some minor suspension changes in the early years and front disc were optional on the first few years.  Brakes were one of the things that got extremely poor reviews on the original toro which I suspect is what lead to many of the Eldos being ordered with the disc option.  Early disc was a 4 piston fixed caliper that is a little hard to come by today.  69-70 disc was standard and the typical for GM single piston floating caliper.  No factory convert those years.   71-78 was GEN 2.  It got a different frame and rear suspension, still solid rear axle.  Got a little longer and lost most of the sport look.  Convert was available 71-76.   Most of the rest of the cars got a lot of new things and re design in 77 so the 77 and especially 78 Eldos were a little odd in some ways.  76 rear disc brakes became standard and used the 'hydro boost' power brake system that was recently perfected and commonly used on light to medium duty trucks.

An interesting offshoot of the E body car was the 73-78 GMC RV's.   Apparently the only RV ever to be made completely by an automaker.   Typical was the auto maker make a chassis and then a coach builder built the rest.  They used the drive line and front suspension out of a Toronado.  Body was all aluminum.  Rear suspension was a funky air suspension tandem axle thing that GM used on large buses but the cool part is it did not actually have a axle so this meant the floor did not have to be high enough to clear the axle (or drive line).  This made them much shorter than typical RV's of that size which made them able to get into more places, much more comfortable ride, and much more efficient.   So basically the same drive train the 5,000 pound cars used was able to drag around these 26 foot monsters.    If you saw the Bill Murray movie Stripes the 'EM-50 Urban Assault Vehicle' they guys were assigned to gaurd (and took on a road trip to see the girls) was one of these. 

79 was the big down size.   They kept the same basic engine / trans layout and suspension but everything was slightly downsized.  Transmission was now based on the 200 instead of the 400.  82 they added overdrive and locking torque converter to it.  They still had a full frame.  Rear suspension was an all new independent design.  Riviera got the FWD treatment in 79.   Seville joined the platform in 80.  85 was the last year for the longitudinal FWD layout.

Never was a Chev or Pontiac engine built with the special oil pan and mounts for the drive shaft extension.   All Oldsmobiles built after 66 ish had the holes and used the same oil pan.   Cadillac 472-500-425-368 had the mounts and special pan.  67 Cad used the 429 engine with some special adapters, 472 was supposed to be ready that year but got delayed.    For the 79+'s the Buick V6 was available.   

Interestingly I recently discovered that VW / Audi in the 2000's did a longitudinal FWD setup.       

Here is a few pics I had that were easy to upload, this is an Eldo with the engine out, the short shaft that goes under the engine is out in this photo.



This is the short extension shaft that goes under the engine, its got a bracket that bolts to the bottom of the engine block and then the CV axle bolts to that flange.

StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

J. Skelly

Disc brakes were standard on the '68 Eldorado and 4-wheel disc brakes were new and standard on the '75 Eldorado.  The '75 was somewhat of a redesign with the elimination of the fender skirts and revised opera windows.  The '77 had the new 425 engine.   
Jim Skelly, CLC #15958
1968 Eldorado
1977 Eldorado Biarritz
1971 Eldorado (RIP)

TJ Hopland

I have 2 75 Eldo's and both have rear drums so if it was available then it must have been an option (like EFI was) or a mid year change.   All the 76+'s I have ever seen have had 4 wheel disc. 

Was 68 still the 4 piston caliper?   I'm thinking it was and 69 was the first year for the single piston that became pretty typical for GM.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

J. Skelly

Hi T.J.,

Yes, the 4-piston calipers were used on the '67 and '68 Eldorado.  Disc brakes were standard on '68, and optional in '67.  I understand that the '69-'78 brakes are basically the same with a conventional caliper setup like what most cars have used over the past 45 years.. 

I wasn't aware of drum brakes on any '75 Eldorado.  Maybe it was a credit like it was on the '65 Corvette.  Hopefully someone can answer that.
Jim Skelly, CLC #15958
1968 Eldorado
1977 Eldorado Biarritz
1971 Eldorado (RIP)

bcroe

The first FWD E cars had switch pitch transmissions.  The 3.21:1 final drive I think, was intended
to get the max top speed out of the Toro, claimed to be 130 mph.  Power escalated to a claimed
400 hp by 1970 (Cad & Toro), then declining.  There is still strong support for the GMCs using that
drive train, some of their parts carry back to the original cars.  Bruce Roe

TJ Hopland

No mention of a rear disc option in the 75 brochure unless I missed it.   I remember thinking that 75 was supposed to have it and being bummed that mine did not have it.  MCLC does not have a 76 brochure on line for comparison.   Track Master was still an option on the Eldo but I believe went away for 76 possibly because the rear disc?   76 Fleetwood and Seville also had rear disc?  Did those also use hydroboost or was it just the Eldo?

http://www.modifiedcadillac.org/documents/1970s/1975/1975%20Sales%20Brochure/
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Shorty64cad

Unfortunately, I've had to do a full rebuild on the engine and transmission on my 69 Eldo, but it has given me a great opportunity to take some photos of this unique set up while it is out of the car.

The tranny has been done and the engine should be back from the rebuiders in a couple of weeks.  Can't wait!

Cheers,  Greg.
Greg Short.  Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
Member No. 26803
1969 Eldorado