1940s-1950s horn ring malfuntion

[Richardonly]

Hi All,

The horn ring on my 1948 Fleetwood no longer makes a connection to sound the horn.

The horn works fine by the center emblem on the steering wheel.  This has happened before and I had it fixed at an antique repair shop years ago.  Behind the plastic emblem is a round metal piece which makes aconnection.

Why would it stop working from the horn ring???

Thanks, Richard

[Bill Ingler #7799]

Hi Richard: Please take a look at the diagram below. Understand that when you blow the horn, either by pushing in on the horn button or pushing on the horn ring, the horn blows because you have completed ground through the N wire which goes to the horn relay. The horn ring is secured to the wheel by the R nut. The end of the ground wire N has a brass connector which has insulator around the brass connector to prevent grounding the circuit and sounding the horn. With the horn ring secured by the nut to the wheel and with the horn button removed, no matter how many times you push the horn ring down to touch the three spokes of the wheel for a ground, the horn will not blow. Why, because the ground could not be directed through wire N because the horn button was removed. Install the horn button as pictured. Now push down so one of the horn ring spokes touches one of the steering wheel spokes and ground is completed back through the horn ring to the connector J, through spring H which is secured to the brass connector on wire N. which goes to the horn relay and the horn blows.

In your case I would study the picture, take your horn button and ring apart to see how items which make up the horn ring and horn button are insulated from one another. I first would make sure that the horn ring is making contact when pushed with one of the 3 spokes of the wheel. Then I would check contact J for any signs of corrosion preventing a good ground with the horn ring.  Horn grounding connections can be frustrating.  Bill

[Richardonly]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for your replies and such detailed answers.

It has been what they call a "heat wave" here, but that would be wishful thinking on my part.  But it seems like a simple fix as the horn does work and it is just a matter of getting the horn ring, to once again, make contact.  It is also in a very convienient spot to work.

Now if my hands would just stop aching, I shall take a look.

Thanks again, Richard

[Jay Friedman]

Gotta give credit where credit is due! 

Art wrote his repair technique was "Jay's"; that is, mine.  Yes, I told Art and others about it, but I learned it from an old mechanic here in Atlanta who fixed my '49's horn button contact that way many years ago.  It has worked ever since.

[Richardonly]

Gentlemen,

Slightly twisted the horn plastic cap with the 3 ears inside and the horn ring worked.  Then I tried to use the horn from the center cap and it came off into my hands.

2 of the ears had broken off.

Well now that I have found the problem, I now need to purchase a new horn button.  I had the original with 2 ears left and thought I would give it a try.  That spring is tough to push down with sore hands.  (Never got it on and the garage was 90 degrees last night, so I gave up until I have a new cap in my hands.)

Thanks again, Richard

[Tito Sobrinho]

Richard:

When you install twisting the central horn button you have to raise the entire horn ring. Yesterday, it took me 2 seconds to installed it when I changed my old steering wheel full of cracks for a new one via Joe Cutler...the new one is a work of art...thanks Joe.
If the wire is too short, use my idea i.e get an  used (detonated) .22 LR shell in contact with the bare wire and keep raising or lowering it until you have a good ring horn function. I did it years ago and the horn ring function perfectly as it should...

[Richardonly]

Tito,

Thank you for that. (Raising the horn ring to install.)

I tried again yesterday with the cap with 2 ears and broke another off.  Then I tried raising the horn ring and it went on easier.

Glad I experimented with an old broken one.

Is a new one more solid than a used one?  Meaning, does the plastic on this part get more brittle with age?

Thanks, Richard

[Tito Sobrinho]

Richard:

I don't have an answer to your question and I don't know if somebody makes a reproduction. Those ears are very fragile but I'm glad mine are all perfect. When removing or installing the button, make sure to hold the horn ring in its upper position. If you cannot find a reproduction, email Joe Cutler... 49caddymanemail addresses not permitted (MA) and or Dennis Akerman ...dennis@caddyparts.com (NH).
They are both CLC members and nice honest people do deal with. They both don't mind a phone call and perhaps one of them have the original button.


































n

[Richardonly]

Tito,

I did call Joe Cutler, Nelson Pease and Dennis Ackerman.  I did order and it's on it's way, a USED one for the time being.  They are all very helpfull and will buy a new one when one of them comes across one.

One place in Calif had new ones, but $500.00 seemed a bit steep at the moment.  Was told by one of the above that $75.00 for a new one would be the price if they had one.   (They did NOT have one at this time.)  $35.00-50.00 for a used one.

Mine was fine, then the horn ring only worked in certain spots.  From there it stopped working entirely.  Ever so slightly I twisted the horn button and the ring worked.  Pressed the center horn button and it came out into my hands.  (Right now I have a wire in the inside center nut, with a broken horn button holding it in place, extending out an inch or two.  I touch the end of this wire to the horn ring and listen to it blast!  HaHa)  The "Beverly Hillbillies Cadillac."

Richard

[jsmithtss]

Richard,
    I just fixed the exact problem on my 47 series 75. The ring ( for what ever reason didn't work ) My first attempt was to install a rubber O ring . This worked, but only for a short time.  I turned the wheel and the "button " ended up in my lap!  Two of the taps broke because of too much pressure.    Not wanting to give up and always trying to build a "better mouse trap"  I came up with a very easy fix.  I took a very thin 1/4" washer and bent it too 90 degrees, ground off one side so that it was flat and then laid it at the bottom of the inside metal ring.  Reinstalled the NEW button and Presto it worked. After a few days, being convinced of the fix, I mixed a small amount of J B Weld and " glued" it in.  With a day of curing, the horn has been fine ever since. If you'd like I could send a picture or two.
           Good Luck
                J.Smith

[Raymond919]

J. Smith,
If you don't mind, could you please post a picture. I'm having trouble visualizing what you've done. I'm having trouble with my horn ring. At this point, the best I can do is get it to ring sometimes if I only push the top of the ring or sometimes if I only push it on the side. I'm at my wit's end.
Many thanks,
Ray Schuman

[jsmithtss]

  Ray,
  Here are some pictures of my 47 horn-ring fix.  However crude, it certainly worked great.
Be careful of two things.  Make sure the washer is VERY thin, and when you apply the J.B. Weld don't put on too much. 
      Good Luck
              Drive Safe   J.Smith

[Raymond919]

J.Smith,
thank you so much for going through the trouble of taking the pictures. I can now visualize what you're saying. (I'm a bit dense sometimes) I'll have to open my horn button to see about doing the same thing. I want to see firsthand why it works.
Does the horn only work when you push the bottom of the chrome ring or also if you press it on top?
I've placed a rubber band under the contact at the end of the wire but it seems hit or miss with the horn working.
Once again, thank you so much,
Ray Schuman

[jsmithtss]

 Ray,
     The " Why it works " is: the distance between the contact points have been reduced by the
thickness of the washer. The ring part of the horn ( the part that you push down) will now touch the center inner metal sooner and thus blow the horn. The center part is controlled more or less by that overbearing spring. When you push down on the center, the spring makes the contact.
   Well, now that I've made that clear as mud, I'll stop, and wish you well.
       J.Smith

[Raymond919]

Many thanks again. This has been an educational process for me. You're a good teacher!
Ray

[Richardonly]

J. Smith,

Thank you for the photos.

My horn is fixed with the new (used) button, but I shall print this for such a time that these buttons are no longer available.

Thank you again, Richard