Bill Hirsch vs. Seymour - Cadillac Dark Blue

[Dan LeBlanc]

Ok, so we all know the Bill Hirsh paint is close, but not spot on to the original Cadillac Dark Blue.

Has anyone tried the Seymour stuff?

http://www.seymourpaint.com/spruce_engine_enamels.html

[Walter Youshock]

Haven't tried it BUT, again, with the Hirsch paint being the current benchmark, the car that DOESN'T have it will be the one to stand out.  You'll have to carry around a totally original front cover or something to prove what the original shade really is.  Like the 23k gold-plated trim on a car that should have gold anodized aluminum issue...

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

...or set a new standard...

Some of that original blue is so dark- I actually needed a flashlight to verify the power steering pulley on a mint, untouched 1963 convertible was blue and not black.

I always wondered if age plays a role...

[Walter Youshock]

Age, heat, years of oil and grease accumulating and baking into the paint will all play a role.  The only true sample would come from a NOS painted part still in the original box.

[Jason Edge]

With my side parts business, I've parted out 39 1963 & 1964 Cadillacs and have completely dismantled all of them and have to say that the Bill Hirsch paint is very, very close.  Some of the outlying parts such as fuel pump, pulleys, etc that get covered in grime are good indicators once you dig under the dirt.   Over the years I've put together a list of what's black and what's blue, etc on these two years at this link: http://6364cadillac.ning.com/profiles/blogs/engine-colors

Here is a directly link to the PDF listing: http://api.ning.com/files/VthhEJwmhSe7DHGAaJq1iUoSVNJcxf548SyYY7MNScqMAVL3NGjuWqZ5716jvevCrIvofSAwUVIe6Bz*8shWJC0EEXvEHZ2o/2012NovDecNewsletterMasterENGINECOLORS.pdf

[Walter Youshock]

Another thing to consider is that, when buying the paint, ALWAYS buy more than you'll need.  Different batches will have slightly different coloration (or may).  Try fixing a scratch with the same can of paint you applied 2 years earlier and it won't match.

[Dan LeBlanc]

At the adviceof a very good friend with some show winners, I went with the Seymour.

[Walter Youshock]

Can you spray a side-by-side sample, scan it and post it?  I'd like to see the difference.  You have to remember that the Hirsch paint was probably the first Cadillac Blue available so it was the only choice for years.

[Dan LeBlanc]

That's the thing, Walter.  There are so many cars out there with it it's what we're used to seeing.  Where I can find original dark blue on my engine, the Hirsch is too pale.

[Walter Youshock]

Not what I meant.  Spray the Hirsch and Seymour on a sample.  How do they compare to each other.  We'll have to work on finding an original sample.

[Jason Edge]

A side by side picture would be good. Even a series of pictures of the same items can look different due to lighting, time of day, sun vs over cast, flash, non-flash.  What I have observed is there is a tinge of teal mixed into the original color, that the lighter ford blues and even darker blues I have seen do not have.   If you go through this album I created looking at the power steering pump pulleys you can see the teal coming through on the original paint as I sand down. On the repainted pulleys you can see the difference of non-flash vs flash in that the non-flash shows the correct tinge of teal found in the Bill Hirsch paints. Here is the link: http://6364cadillac.ning.com/photo/albums/power-steering-pump-pictures

I've got thousands of pictures and parts and will have to get some better pictures posted. This purpose of my post above was just to show that yes indeed many of the original vented pulleys were the Cadillac Blue.

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

Bill Hirsch's dark Cadillac blue has become the standard and that's what judges expect to
see.  As somebody already stated, an original part (even if NOS in the box) would not be the
same shade after 50 years.  Especially if on a car, exposed to heat, etc.

If yours looks very dark or different, be prepared to prove it's the "original" shade.  How
to do that?  I don't have the answer and I've judged at 25 Grand Nationals over the years.

I'd like to see the side-by-side pics of the two different suppliers offerings.  However, computer
generated colors are truly very subjective and it may be a useless endeavor.

Mike

[Jon S]

Ok, so we all know the Bill Hirsh paint is close, but not spot on to the original Cadillac Dark Blue.

Has anyone tried the Seymour stuff?

http://www.seymourpaint.com/spruce_engine_enamels.html

I've used both and found the Seymour/Spruce to be an excellent product and appears "spot on" color-wise!

Jon

[Jon S]

I always found the Hirsh to have a hint of purple to it, it looks wrong to me. If its the standard now they can have it.

LOL - Agree!

[Dan LeBlanc]

Here are two 1962 engine bays. One done with Hirsch and one done with Seymour. I won't say which is which just yet until I see some opinions of which looks closer to original.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Wow, both beautiful. I could see immediately. The engine on the bottom has that purple tint. It pops right out.
   I'm gonna vote for the one on top. Who did that. I want him to do mine.

You sir, are disqualified from answering that one- as am I - both for exactly the same reason. 

[Dan LeBlanc]

Bill Hirsch's dark Cadillac blue has become the standard and that's what judges expect to
see.  As somebody already stated, an original part (even if NOS in the box) would not be the
same shade after 50 years.  Especially if on a car, exposed to heat, etc.

If yours looks very dark or different, be prepared to prove it's the "original" shade.  How
to do that?  I don't have the answer and I've judged at 25 Grand Nationals over the years.

I'd like to see the side-by-side pics of the two different suppliers offerings.  However, computer
generated colors are truly very subjective and it may be a useless endeavor.

Mike

Yeah. Seymour seems much better. Hirsch is so popular because he promotes the day lights  out of it saying its perfect and the hobbiests have come to believe it. Just because it is marketed as such doesn't believe it is. I agree that the Hirsch is too purple compared to original components I have removed from several engines which put me in pursuit of something better.

[Bill Caddyshack]

What color do you suggest for the 1958 Eldorado air cleaner. Is there a local gold that matches, maybe at Autozone?

[Bill Caddyshack]

Go to Michael's. Go to the model paint section. Get the TesTors  Gold 1147 I think is the part number. Fabulous stuff, period, you'll love it

Thank you!

[Jason Edge]

I've never picked up any 'purple' tint in the Bill Hirsch paints I've used but do see the tinge of teal that I think is correct once you get down past the grime, and oxidation.  The bottom line is we all have to go with what we think is closest to origional. I have dismantled 39 parts cars and have seen literally 1000's of original parts and the Bill Hirsch spray and brush on paint I have used does not have purple at least to my eyes. My issues has always been cost!  This stuff has doubled in cost in the last 15 years.

For reference, below is a picture of my engine I rebuilt and painted with the Hirsch Cadillac Blue and an origional power steering pump pulley where I had sanded almost all the way through the color where you can see the tinge of teal: