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1957 Biarritz fuel pump color

Started by Paul Tesone, September 25, 2013, 07:00:32 PM

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Paul Tesone

I bought a reconditioned fuel pump while at the 2013 GN . It looks beautiful - natural appearing gray metal with gold colored screws around the perimeter . If I'm reading the authenticity manual correctly , I believe it states the these fuel pumps were assembled and then sprayed COMPLETELY in Cadillac blue - even the gold screws . Can this be correct ? Am I missing something ? It looks so good as is , that I hate to do anything to it . Thanks for any information .   Paul Tesone CLC # 6876

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Yes, it should be painted Cadillac blue- pump body, screws and all. The brass fitting that attaches to the pump is also supposed to be painted blue. Yes the brass is prettier- but blue is correct.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Paul Tesone

Thanks Eric - I appreciate the response . ... Paul Tesone CLC #6876

Quentin Hall

      It probably just means that every 50s car I've owned has had a replacement fuel pump; but I have never seen an all blue pump . . . ever.  Wouldn't that mean the hoses would have gotten painted as well? I've only ever seen unpainted. Can some other experts lend their weight here? Where's Grant Owen when you need him? Q
53 Eldo #319
53 Eldo #412.
53 Eldo #433
57 Biarritz
53 series 62 conv
39 Sixty Special Custom
57 Biarritz

Walter Youshock

Basically, everything was put on the engine and THEN it was painted.  Once the engine was installed in the chassis, the flex lines were added, the carb and fuel lines.
CLC #11959 (Life)
1957 Coupe deVille
1991 Brougham

Jon S

I know for a fact the 1958's were NOT painted blue, but cannot speak for the 1957's.  You had to be there when the car were new and actually owned a new one to know!  Very few of us around.
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

Jon S

Quote from: Walter Youshock on September 26, 2013, 11:39:46 AM
Basically, everything was put on the engine and THEN it was painted.  Once the engine was installed in the chassis, the flex lines were added, the carb and fuel lines.

If you look at Section 9 of the 1957 Shop Manual, the fuel pump is clearly NOT blue!
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

Walter Youshock

CLC #11959 (Life)
1957 Coupe deVille
1991 Brougham

Jon S

Just to add:  The original factory-installed fuel pumps were flat cast aluminum.  AC Delco "replacements" went to a cadmium finish and many of the screw designed ones were modified to a sealed crimpted design.  Lastly, there were variations re: flat vs slant top designs.
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

Grant Owen

I can see this opening up another can of worms  >:D . The original fuel pumps were in fact put on the engine then it was painted they did however try to avoid the pump but the lower section always had paint on it. My 1960 still has the original fuel pump that still works & it does have Blue on the lower half. When I replaced the original pump on my 58 it also had blue on the lower part. Looking through the old original pumps I have here they all appear to have some blue on them some more than others. As for the plating on the screws some have gold cad while some have silver.
I do admit that when I restore an engine I always leave the pump off when I paint & install the pump after so it doesn't get painted .

Paul Tesone

Thank you all for responding . Grant - in your opinion , is this a questionable enough topic that I WOULD NOT lose judging points if I DIDN'T paint the fuel pump , or painted only the bottom half as you referred to in your response ? Walter - I would appreciate your thoughts on this question as well . I don't believe a painted fuel pump will  be as attractive as one with a natural , gray metal ; but if it means loosing points , I'll paint it . I've spent too much time and money in an attempt to be accurate to do anything differently now . Grant - any thoughts regarding my question about exhaust shrouds ( passenger side only or both passenger & driver's side ) for this car ?? Thanks , Paul Tesone CLC #6876 .

Grant Owen

Paul, I live in New Zealand where showing a car it would never matter if the pump was painted probably you would get comments like why did you paint the pump. I have never seen a judges manual so I would not know if any points would be deducted for a non painted pump. The exhaust shrouds on the drivers side (heat riser)  the short pipe had an asbestos shield I am currently looking into trying to reproduce something that would replicate this  ( I used something called EMA ? cant really remember the name maybe someone here know the correct name, it looked OK but it was to brittle & didn't last that well) I have made the correct straps , then it had a shroud to the muffler . On the passengers side both pieces were the shrouds.

Paul Tesone

Lou Commisso was kind enough to send me factory photos of an engine being installed . The fuel pump was painted . So painted it shall be on my car - even though I think the natural metal looks better . Thanks Lou . .. Grant - Quentin Hall sent pictures verifying what you and he said about the exhaust shrouds - 2 ribbed metal sections on the passenger's side & 1 asbestos piece with 1 metal section on the driver's side .Thanks to you , Quentin and others who took the time to answer my question . By the way , McVey sells a ceramic substitute for the asbestos wrap . Paul Tesone CLC # 6876

57CaddyBiarritz

I realize i'm late to the thread here, but had a question about the fuel pump for a 57.  I have both an AC and a Carter sitting on my workbench - which is the correct one to install?  Also, regarding the color, I'm still not sure (natural versus blue) though it sounds like either way would work...

76eldo

Assembly line photos would be real helpful here.

I have also seen the heater hoses painted in the front, the assumption being that they were on the engine when the engine was put in the frame and the engine was already painted.

My 1960 was detailed under the hood prior to my purchase.  The fuel pump is blue, the filter and lines are natural.  The heater hoses under the intake are blue.

I don't think we have reached the level of scrutiny that the Vette guys have.

Would there be more points for some things being half blue, or blue hoses and clamps?

I have no idea.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Paul Tesone

 John -Should be an AC & painted blue . Notice the non parallel top . ... Paul Tesone CLC #6876

Jon S

#16
You guys can make up and document whatever you want; however the fuel pumps were not painted blue in 1957 and 1958. I've been working on these cars since 1957 and do remember. Look at the pictures in the Shop Manual. Cast silver/grey; not blue!  Do what you want.
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

57eldoking

Freeze this 1957 Cadillac factory assembly video at 6:11, you can clearly see the fuel pump has the same color as the rest of the block.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE2ChcaqJLc
1957 Eldorado Biarritz #906
1957 Eldorado Biarritz #1020 http://bit.ly/1kTvFlM
1957 Eldorado Seville  #1777 http://bit.ly/1T3Uo1c
1995 Fleetwood Brougham  http://bit.ly/20YwJV4
2010 SRX Performance

1946 Chevy 1/2 ton pickup
1957 Buick Caballero Estate Wagon (x2)
1960 Chevy Apache 10 Stepside
1991 Jeep Grand Wagoneer (x2)
1992 Pontiac Trans Sport GT

Paul Tesone

 John & Jon - the page I posted is out of the CLC authenticity manual. In deciding what to do when restoring my engine bay , I was pretty certain that I would follow the manual so I would not lose points when judged . When I received the factory photo of an engine being installed and it showed the fuel pump painted blue , that convinced me . I wish it wern't so ; because  frankly , the fuel pump with its natural color and gold annodized screws looks so much better than being painted blue . John - if judging is important to you , I would advise painting the pump blue , or you will certainly lose points . The judges look for these things ; and the manual is what they use when making decisions regarding authenticity . I  had the fuel line heat shield painted silver ( was told it should be black ) and lost points . ... Show us some some photos when you finish . If I can help in any way , please contact me .... Paul Tesone CLC # 6876

Jon S

#19
Quote from: Paul Tesone on December 28, 2014, 11:01:16 AM
John & Jon - the page I posted is out of the CLC authenticity manual. In deciding what to do when restoring my engine bay , I was pretty certain that I would follow the manual so I would not lose points when judged . When I received the factory photo of an engine being installed and it showed the fuel pump painted blue , that convinced me . I wish it wern't so ; because  frankly , the fuel pump with its natural color and gold annodized screws looks so much better than being painted blue . John - if judging is important to you , I would advise painting the pump blue , or you will certainly lose points . The judges look for these things ; and the manual is what they use when making decisions regarding authenticity . I  had the fuel line heat shield painted silver ( was told it should be black ) and lost points . ... Show us some some photos when you finish . If I can help in any way , please contact me .... Paul Tesone CLC # 6876

Paul -

I froze the video at 6:10 and I believe I see both the carburetor AND the fuel pump as non-blue.  It is difficult to distinguish on the video, but I believe I do see two distinct pieces.  I agree the natural color and gold anodized screws look beautiful.  As I've stated many times, my car is an original bought new 1958, but I am not into judging.  I had it judged once an AACA meet and was told the jacking instructions were in the wrong place . . . they belonged on the trunk lid not on the right side trunk liner by a guy 1/2 my age.  Obviously, he had no clue and when I presented the original Bill of Sale he continued to tell me the car was wrong.

I know Lou Commisso and sent him a note regarding the fuel pump color.  Had my second cousin not purchased a brand new 1957 Fleetwood and my dad a brand new 1958 Sedan De Ville, I would not be so emphatic, but I cleaned and detailed both cars on a regular basis and know neither had painted fuel pumps.  I'm just trying to be helpful.

One last picture:
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT