Help need for repairing / rebuilding 40 spoke Kelsey Hayes Wire Wheel. Please

[62 driver]

I have 9 40 spoke Kelsey Hayes wheels that are in need of repair and or restoring. Some have been use as parts wheels and some are to rusted and need a full restoration. I need help for someone that has done wheel restoration before. I am not so sure how to start on the project. So I have few questions and more to come.

1. Where to buy replacment spokes?

2. Is there a special spoke wrench or the regular 11/32 open end?

3. If your replacing a few spokes. How tight do you tighten them?

4. Ideas on how to build a wheel truing station?

5. Ways to remove a spoke the has rusted nipples?

6. Any other tips or hints? Web sites, Books, ect

I have time and can do most car repairs but have never had wire wheels before.

Thanks for any help or ideas.

Dave

[TonyZappone #2624]

I sent mine to Dayton Wire Wheel in Dayton, Ohio.  This was years ago.  I assume they are still in business.   I recall  vaguely a company called Wire Wheel of New England that I used with satisfaction.  Perhaps others can provide feedback on both these companies.

[markl]

Dave,
I see you are in San Diego, and that is helpful to know, as shipping would be $$$ to the eastern part of the USA.
That said, there is a shop in, of all places, Walnut Creek, CA that could do this work, but I doubt if they would sell parts.  They are Rite-Way Specialist, (925) 933-4046.  Been in business over 40 years, so that speaks volumes about their competence.

But (and I know you don't want to hear this), working on your own wheels would be about the last thing I would bite off.  I build my own bicycle wheels, and from that experience, I would say there is as much Art as there is Science to this.   I realize that working on a rigid rim (auto vs. bicycle) should make things easier, but still, the experience that the pros have comes from years of dealing w/ all the facets of turning out true and durable wheels.

I also recall that there are several places in SoCal that are renowned for working on wire wheels.  If you travel to the SF Bay area (Walnut Creek is about 30 miles east of SF), I would recommend Rite-Way, but otherwise you should seek out something closer that is recommended (hopefully) by others.

Mark Lowery, CLC #25216

[62 driver]

Living in San Diego and knowing LA has many shops that fix and restore wire wheel is nice. I am really looking for some ideas on how to do it myself.  I will try first and then have them restored if I give up. I would love to have ideas on how to remove the spokes that have rusted threads. The chrome is fair on the spokes itself and good on hubs.
Any ideas would be help full. I don't want to use a torch and ruin the good chrome. I will re chrome the spokes if I can remove them.
Thanks Dave

[markl]

Dave,
Hopefully someone who has done this sort of work will chime in, but for starters, get a can of Aero Kroil.  Your local Harley dealer or West Marine may carry it, but regardless, you can order it directly from Kano Labs in Nashville.  Absolutely the best penetrating oil in my humble opinion. email at: sales@kanolabs.com  .  I have no connection to them other than being a very satisfied customer. 

Then be very patient, like maybe soak things for days, not hours.  And heat always helps, though you will need to be careful not to anneal anything, and there is alway the issue of the plating.  Now I'll pipe down and somebody who has actually worked on these can (hopefully) step up.  Can't imagine that they would be that different from working on motorcycle wheels, but I bet the spokes are totally one of a kind.

Mark Lowery, CLC#25216

[Glen]

Actually the best penetrating oil is a 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone.  It separates quickly so keep shaking the container as you apply it. 

[35-709]

Glen is right about the 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF.

I don't know what the proper torque would be on the spokes when reassembling the wheels, but as has been said, putting the wheels back together AND keeping them perfectly round AND straight is somewhat of an art.  I am sure you will want to be able to mount the wheels on some sort of an "axle" to freely turn and spin them as you progress in their reassembly.
Possibly you could talk to the folks at WHEEL SMITH   http://www.thewheelsmith.net/   in Corona, CA and they will be willing to impart some knowledge and advice.  I don't know just how proprietary they consider the art of wheel making to be.  Be interesting to hear how you progress doing this yourself.

[62 driver]

The chrome outer and inter hubs are in nice condition. It's the spokes that are not that nice. I could clean them up but the first rain would grow rust again and I don't want that much work. So this is the game plan so far. Make a jig out of a 3/4" plywood board. Stake the outside hub and make a round post for inside hub. Clean nipples with wire brush. Use Aero Kroil oil for a few weeks. Remove all spokes on 7 wheels. Clean hubs. Find stainless steel spokes and nipples. Reassemble using anti seizure compound. Use dial gage for trueness. I have use of a spin balancer. Did I miss something or any other ideas.

[35-709]

Here's a place in Azusa, CA you might contact for spokes they do motorcycle and automobile spokes ---

http://www.buchananspokes.net/

If you want to talk to the big dogs in wire wheels, talk to Dayton Wire Wheels ---

http://www.daytonwirewheel.com/

[62 driver]

Thanks I will call and price them out. I found kroil oil at Marshall's hardware in San Diego. Now for a week of oiling up the spoke and nipple. I have not found any information on the tightness for spokes.
Dave

[35-709]

More research at Buchanan's reveals that they also sell spoke wrenches and the torque wrench ---
http://www.buchananspokes.net/categories/miscellaneous_tools.asp

Been here?  http://www.team.net/sol/tech/truwire.html

BTW, and once again, a home made 50/50 mix of Acetone and ATF is the best penetrant, shake the squirt pump can often.

[62 driver]

Called Buchanan spokes and spoke to Mr. Buchanan himself. He says about 50-60 lbs torque on the spokes. They stock the KH wheel spokes normally. Cost about $2.78-3.36 per Stainless Steel spoke and $2.34 per nipple. So about $5.50 per spoke at 40 spokes. $275 per wheels plus $66. to polish 40 spokes.

[62 driver]

Did a test wheel this weekend. I took one wheel and put kroil on the spokes let it soak for two day. Wow did that work. Removed every spoke. Now I am going to build a jig next weekend. More to follow. As always any ideas are great. Thanks Dave

[62 driver]

Update on the progress.


Used the jig to put the disassembled wheel together. The two rows of short spokes must be laced at the same time. The short spokes lock in to the center hub and must all be done all at once. You can not just replace one spoke in the KH without losing all them up and rotate the center hub about a inch. One single long spoke can be replaced with out losing all of them. I have never seen a long spoke broken. Only the short ones. The other important discover I made was the 4 rows (2 long rows and 2 short rows) of spoke look the same in length to the eye but are not the same. They are .25 difference in length. I am now trading spokes back and forth. You want to have the spoke end to be the same on all spoke nipples.

[62 driver]

It been a month sense I dropped the 5 wheels in LA for chrome. Called and they will be done Wednesday (4-09-14).  I now have stripped 3 more wheels and will drop them as I pick up the 5. The shop will also chrome 4 center caps and polish 4 stainless steel caps I have?  The stainless steel ones are off a Eldorado and has the special center peace. The stainless steels spokes should be done this week as well. I also had a chance to build one more wheel out of used parts.  I used the jig and true it up with the wheel balancer as before. So if all goes will I will end up with 4 restored wheel and a nice driver for the trunk of both car.  The driver set now on my son's 61 will be sold. Here is the wheel re chromed and a before and after of a mirror base for $10.

[62 driver]

This is the spokes wrench. I ask Dayton wheels what they did and they said that they get theirs from Buchanans.  They then grind them open for the size of nipple. I also am going use a old socket and grind a slot so the wrench will fit in and then use a inch pounds torque wrench at 90*.

[C.R. Patton II]

Hello Dave

Your formula for success should be copied:

Desire + Diligence = Nice Product

[62 driver]

I am still working on the wheels!  Have 5 back together but still need to be torqued. Have 3 more do to finish the 2 sets. 

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Dave,
I think you need to buy the 2 cores from me & keep up the good work.
Bob

[62 driver]

Bob,  You are right! I am a wheel hoarder! I sent you a PM.