'61 Hydramatic shifting problem

[willits]

I have an issue with the Hydramatic in my ’61 not upshifting   I bought the car a couple of years ago and just got it on the road a few months ago.  The transmission has not worked since I bought it. 

When I first got it, it would not shift at all, or maybe just into 2nd.  It would go max about 20 mph.  I changed the fluid, filter and governor.  There was about 1/8” of dark gray sludge with a lighter gray layer under it in the bottom of the pan.  There were no metal shaving or the like in the pan, just the sludge.   After changing the governor, the old one had 2 broken rings and the plunger was sticky, I believe it will shift into 3rd but not into 4th.   

I have adjusted the TV rod according to the manual and tried lengthening and shortening it, but this had no effect. 

The next thing to look at according to the manual is the 3-4 shift valve which could be stuck.  I dropped the pan again, and removed the control valve assembly, the servo accumulator assembly and cleaned all the valves.  Other than more sludge on the up facing side of the servo piston, it all looked clean and all the valves came out with a little shake of the housing. 

I did notice while the servo and control valve were out that he overrun band could be moved a little back an forth by hand.  I don't know how tight it should be.  Cleaning the control valve assembly did not change anything. 

The situation now is that I have reverse.  When shifting into LO car stays in 2nd.  When shifting into the first Drive, (3rd), it will go about 40-45mph at around 3,000 rpm and not upshift.  When in second Drive, (4th), it is the same as in 3rd.  When in 2nd the engine brakes when you let up on the throttle, when in 3rd or 4th it does not.  In 3rd or 4th the rpms drop when you let up the throttle.  When you apply the throttle nothing happens until the rpms come back up and the transmissions feels like it engages again. 

So before taking the transmission out of the car I figured I would ask if anyone here has any suggestions of what else to check while it is still in the car. 

Thanks for any tips.   

Peter

[Dave Shepherd]

You know this will have to come apart, but I would perform the diagnostic pressure tests first, PITA, but this is the right way to know what to look for when disassembled

[russ austin]

Just read that going from drive to reverse several times, will unstick the clutches.  bang it from drive to reverse. 

[LeRoy DeVol]

Peter; Whenever you have gray sludge in the motor or transmission it is because of water in the oil or fluid. If you have a water cooled trans. you may have a bad radiator with leaking cooler lines at the bottom. The water that gets into the trans. will evaporate with the heat & will not be visible but will leave that gray sludge. You will probably need to rebuild the trans. & replace the radiator.

Lee DeVol

[Roger Zimmermann]

If antifreeze was used, the transmission's oil will turn orange in color. I had a case when the heat exchanger, located in the radiator, was leaking.
If the transmission was not overhauled since a long time, the seals from the front unit coupling are hard and are leaking. This is usually the reason why you don't have the 4th speed.
The overun band is effectively loose when not activated. It cannot be adjusted by design.

[willits]

Thanks everyone for the feed back.  It looks like I will be taking the transmission out and getting it gone through.  I will get a pressure gauge and the do the pressure tests first as Dave mentions. 
Peter

[dplotkin]

I believe you will find the front coupling O rings (spaghetti seals) leaking badly. The front coupling fills in second, dumps in third and fills in 4th. When it doesn't fill, you don't get second or fourth - which sounds like your situation. You might find your reverse cone in tough shape and you might not. By 59 this troublesome and goofy shifting box had been excised of most of its problems. It is my least favorite automatic.

Dan

[Roger Zimmermann]

I believe you will find the front coupling O rings (spaghetti seals) leaking badly. It is my least favorite automatic.

Dan, it's what I tried to explain, you did it better than me. On the contrary, I like those transmissions, even if they are complex!