Classic car values in the 1970's?

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

I wonder really how much upward trend there will continue to be as people most connected to that '50s era age and eventually get out of the hobby and therefore remove some of the demand.

I have commented on this issue many times and while trying to maintain a sense of objectivity, I simply don't see such a situation coming to pass in foreseeable future for some of the following reasons:

- Recognized & prestigious top-of-the-line product in its day.

- Relative scarcity.

- Peak of distinctive styling (1930s & 1950s) - 30s being limited to the truly elite; '50s to a much broader audience.   

- Highly symbolic & iconic - of an unprecedented era of wealth creation and economic prosperity & expansion (1950s).

- Overseas economic development - fueling increased demand. 

While there is no "crystal ball", the presence of such factors usually bodes well for solid long term appreciation & collectability.   

   

[INTMD8]

Agreed ^^^


I think nostalgia can be a reason for someone to buy a car but I don't think it's the only reason.

30's and prior Cadillac/LaSalle still command a lot of money and you would have to be near 100 years old now to have remembered growing up with one.

[Big Apple Caddy]

Part of this value/demand debate also depends on how one wants to evaluate increasing or decreasing values e.g. ignoring or factoring in inflation.  A car that was worth $50K in 2000 and is worth $60K today has seen a 20% value increase unless you factor in inflation which would actually show about an 11% to 12% value decrease.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Part of this value/demand debate also depends on how one wants to evaluate increasing or decreasing values e.g. ignoring or factoring in inflation.  A car that was worth $50K in 2000 and is worth $60K today has seen a 20% value increase unless you factor in inflation which would actually show about an 11% to 12% value decrease.

If you really want to get down to brass tacks, consider that $1.00 invested in the S&P 500 in 1976 would be worth ~ $42.00 today.

By that measure, if someone paid $25,000 for a '76 ELC new, the car would need to be worth ~ $1,000,000 today - which doesn't even take into account holding costs such as maintenance, insurance, storage, and...heaven forbid...interest - if the car had been financed when new. When all that has been factored in, the car would need to be worth closer to $1.5M+ today.

There are perhaps only a handful of cars in the world  whose value outpaced investment rate of return - even without racking up a single mile - when purchased new.     

[INTMD8]

Let's break down Eric's example.

It's 1985, 59 Biarritz is $20k.

Calculating inflation, that 1985 20k is about 43,500 today, which isn't going to buy anyone a nice 59 Biarritz, so considering inflation and considering the car has aged, it has also appreciated throughout the years.  (well, at least from 1985 until today though you could break it down between different time periods).

What's a 59 Biarritz worth today? Conservatively 175K+ for a nice example?

1985 to 2013 rate of inflation 116%

1985 to 2013 Biarritz appreciation 773%

About right? 

I'm sure someone could have invested that cash and made more but I would rather have an empty bank account and a full garage rather than the other way around 

All that being said, I think the original intent of this thread was simply to ask what 20-40k would have bought in the late 70's, which is a fun conversation and I don't think anyone here is ignoring vehicle aging or inflation.

[C.R. Patton II]

Hello Professor Moran

Nice analytical synopsis of automobile investments.

Hopefully it will spur LaSalle purchases and stimulate CLC membership. Thank you

[Big Apple Caddy]

If you really want to get down to brass tacks, consider that $1.00 invested in the S&P 500 in 1976 would be worth ~ $42.00 today.

By that measure, if someone paid $25,000 for a '76 ELC new, the car would need to be worth ~ $1,000,000 today - which doesn't even take into account holding costs such as maintenance, insurance, storage, and...heaven forbid...interest - if the car had been financed when new. When all that has been factored in, the car would need to be worth closer to $1.5M+ today.

There are perhaps only a handful of cars in the world  whose value outpaced investment rate of return - even without racking up a single mile - when purchased new.   

I wasn't so much getting into investment return over time but rather what the market was supporting in current dollars at given times.

For example, according to an NADA Classic, Collectible and Special Interest Car Appraisal Guide I have the average value of a 1938 Cadillac Fleetwood 75 Formal 7 Passenger Sedan in 2000 was $31,300.  NADA today lists the average value of that same car as $34,600. 

One side, ignoring inflation, could essentially argue that the demand vs. supply for this car has increased based on its increased market value. 

However, factor in inflation and the $31,300 in 2000 converts to about $42,400 today which means the current NADA value of $34,600 would show a decreased demand vs. supply based on its decreased market value.  The current market "values" this car less, not more, today compared to 2000.

[Big Apple Caddy]

All that being said, I think the original intent of this thread was simply to ask what 20-40k would have bought in the late 70's, which is a fun conversation and I don't think anyone here is ignoring vehicle aging or inflation.

Sorry for taking this subject thread down a different path. 

[MB49Caddy]

I bought a number 3  56 sedan deville around 1975-76 for 1,000. Sold it in the early 80's needing engine work for 600. In 1970 I was offered a Lasalle, I think it was a 1939 that was used by an Ohio Governor at one time, the seller was giving me a deal at 900 which was a fortune to me at the time.
Kids came before cars !

Good points B Garrett...let us not forget however that in 1950 something that cost $5000 then would today be the equivilent of paying $48,354 -- sooo, I guess my point is that we think of that 5k in today's money, but really someone who paid 5k for something back then it would be the equiv of paying $50k for something in today's money.
Regards,
MB

[TJ Hopland]

We are not too far off topic.    My main question wasn't about investments and adjusted for inflation it was just if you had the money at that time what could you get.

Just a refresher what the original question was:

Lets say you were an automotive enthusiast in the late 1970's with $20k-40k burning a hole in your pocket, what could you buy both new or used? 

What I would like to see is more ads and such from various eras.    The 50's auction list posted earlier in the thread was interesting to see.   That's the kind of stuff I would like to see more of. 

[Big Apple Caddy]

A few Eldorado Brougham ads from when they were new/untitled or a few years old.

Palm Beach Post - January 17, 1958
$13,500 in 1958 would be about $109,000 today.  $11,000 would be about $89,000.  A $20,000 savings.

Palm Beach Daily News - January 12, 1959
$9,000 in 1959 would be about $72,000 today.  $7,500 would be about $60,000.

Evening Independent - August 31, 1962
$4,500 in 1962 would be about $35,000 today.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Enjoyed the period advertising.

Back in the early '60s, my father had a chance to buy a '58 Eldorado Brougham for $1,200 (dealer to dealer wholesale) but he passed on it feeling the car's overcomplexity would make it far too difficult to resell.

Back in those days, air suspended cars were looked upon something akin to a millstone.

I once remember looking at a 1966 NADA Guide which listed values for 1959 Seville & Biarritz @ $975 and $1,075 respectively; while a Coupe deVille was listed @ $1,375.

[Blade]

Regarding this topic it will be interesting following these upcoming acutions in January:

http://www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1064754

http://www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1064006

http://www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1064272

http://www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1064473

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Here are values given from the July 1966 issue of NADA guidebook for 1959 & 1960 Cadillac.

NADA's editorial policy is to provide used car values for the previous 7 model years, therefore 1966 would be the final year for 1959 values to be given.

I was way off on the values as I had remembered them.

An interesting snapshot of the used car market for Cadillacs.

[Big Apple Caddy]

The average lifespan of cars back then just wasn't what it is today and the comparatively poor resale values shown in the 1966 guide help reflect that.   The 1966 NADA average wholesale of a five year old ('61) Sedan DeVille was less than 16% of its original base price.  Compare that to the current NADA average trade-in value of a five year old ('08) CTS which is over 37% of its original base price.

[Jeff Maltby 4194]

1986 49 price guide :<)

[Big Apple Caddy]

The values of the Series 61 and Series 62 club coupes and sedans were listed as almost the same in that 1986 guide while today a club coupe will bring a lot more than a sedan.

[harvey b]

I remember being in Florida in march of 1980,seeing a plymouth Superbird,was lime green,had a fresh coat of paint on it,was all ready to drive away,this was at a local Dodge dealer,it was 5500.00 or offers,That car would have been a good investment.With 20-40 K back then you could have had a lot of nice tin in your driveway for that kind of money,the internet wasnt around so people didnt really know what stuff was worth then.I did want the superbird,but as i was from canada,we had a 15 year or older rule to import cars into Canada then,so i didnt really try too hard. Harvey

[David Greenburg]

I just pulled out a 1987 Hemmings.  Prices are all over the place.  "59 Biarritz "restored to be the best"  - $75k;  '58 Brougham, good condition but could use cosmetics, - $13.5k ; '57 Brougham, "once of the nicest originals, 31k miles- $24.9k "but lets talk;"  '58 Seville trophy winner, $9.2k; 1940 V16 Conv. Sedan "I don't believe there is a better one" - $135K; '59 62 coupe, new paint, condition 2-3, $6.5k;58 Brougham outstanding, #2 low-mile original, $17k; '59 Biarritz, new paint, needs some interior and mechanical, $14.9 or offerC;  61 Fleetwood 60S 23k miles, drives like new, $8k.  Finally , not one, but two '53 Eldos (no further info)- $11k each "please buy these cars, I need the money."    Ah, the good old days!

[Jeff Maltby 4194]

Self-Starter 1986 ads plus SF bay area Examiner 1953 when I was one year old :<)