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Blinking Headlights - 1939 Cadillac

Started by hudson29, February 06, 2014, 08:05:02 PM

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hudson29

Fifteen years ago I used to drive my 1939 Cadillac 6127 Coupé all over SoCal night or day. The lights worked great. Several years ago the lights started to blink on and off and the car had to be retired from night time use. The manual sez that there is a set of points on the light switch that act like a circuit breaker when the electric load got too high as it might if a short happened. This could cause the lights to blink.

I recently found a 1939 headlight switch on eBay and my buddy Dan who retired from Edison soon had it apart, cleaned up and checked with a meter. He pulled the existing one out of the car and used the points from it to complete the "new" switch. The points were dressed with a points file. The meter showed the resistance was lower and the new switch was installed. Dan tested the light circuits and feels the wiring is in good shape so we powered it up and gave it a whirl.

The lights stayed on for several minutes and I was starting to have hope that all would be well. Then they started blinking again. A quick feel of the points revealed that they had gotten warm.

Now what? Dan suggests bypassing the points and installing a modern circuit breaker in line that would provide the same protection in a more reliable manner. Has any one done this? What capacity circuit breaker did you use?

Vintage Paul
1939 Cadillac 6127 Coupé
1929 Hudson Town Sedan
1926 Hudson Anderson Bodied Coupé
1923 Ford Runabout

Brad Ipsen CLC #737

In the 40 shop manual a spec is given for these cut out points.  I assume it would be the same as 39.  They should not trip with 30 amps continuous at 70F and they should open after 3 minutes at 42 amps.  Sounds like you have a friend who has some electrical equipment so you could test and readjust.  The point adjustment is locked with some solder but that could be melted out or as your friend said replace with a 40 amp circuit breaker.
Brad Ipsen
1940 Cadillac 60S
1938 Cadillac 9039
1940 Cadillac 6267
1940 LaSalle 5227
1949 Cadillac 6237X
1940 Cadillac 60S Limo

Glen

You might want to check the draw on the light circuit.  If newer headlights were installed they might draw more than the original lights, although 40 amps seems like a lot. 
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

Roger Zimmermann

If nothing is wrong in the light circuit, I would insert a relay to by-pass the points.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Steve Passmore

I had that happen many years ago, the points are spring loaded and just general age and rust had weakened the spring until it gave way too early. I replaced it with fuses and its been good for 25 years.
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

harvey b

On my 37 when I bought it, it had a separate relay for the headlights,it was made by KW I think.My car had sealed beams added to it at one time,when I rewired my car I did not use it again,when I tried the high beams it was like your car,after 3 minutes the lights went out and came back on,i have since put the original style bulbs in it,lights work fine now.i still have the relay,it would look period correct for these cars,if you like I can post a picture of it later.Harvey
Harvey Bowness

Hilarius

This post brings to mind what had happened to me about a year ago.
I own the same 1939-6127 and while driving home one night, not only the headlights went out, but also the ignition, starter motor and everything else. I had to push the car off the intersection where it had quit working at a traffic light.
It was night and I couldn't see anything under the hood, so I just sat inside the car trying to think out where to start looking.
After about 10 to 15 minutes, without any hope, I pushed the starter button, and now the starter worked and she fired right up and I went home another 10 miles without difficulty but with only the side lights on. I checked the battery terminals but they were tight and I could not, in the next days, and to this day find what had been the cause of the failure.
Haven't used the car for night time driving, since.

Hilmar.
Hilmar Schneider #26898
1930-162, "353", 4D-SDN-7P
1940-7567, 2D-CCP-2/4P
1948-7519X, 4D-SDN-5P
1952-6019X, 4D-SDN-5P
1973 Mercedes 107R, 2D-CCP-2P
2015 Cadillac SRX, 4D-SDN-5P

Fred Pennington 25635

Do you have standard bulbs or do you have Halogen bulbs.
The halogens pull more amps and will cause the circuit breaker to cycle.

Fred P.
Fred Pennington, CLC 25635
1940, LaSalle 5019
1940 LaSalle 5019 parts car
1968 Ford Bronco
1973 Mustang Convertible
2012 Shelby GT500

hudson29

I believe the lights to be standard light bulb types rather than sealed beam or halogen but have never actually taken them apart and looked at them. The headlights always worked well at night but not so well that I ever suspected modernity . . .

The modern breaker seems a good way to go. Will 12v units work? Do I need to alter the 12v rating to get the 40 amps wanted?

Vintage Paul, lookin forward to nite drives again!
1939 Cadillac 6127 Coupé
1929 Hudson Town Sedan
1926 Hudson Anderson Bodied Coupé
1923 Ford Runabout

J. Gomez

Paul,

Your problem could well be a high resistance between the headlight switch to the headlights causing a higher load for the switch. The thermostatic contacts on the headlight switch would open when the current is too high causing them to heat up. That is why your see the lights flickering.

Placing a relay in the circuit is a great idea but in your case I would suggest checking the wiring, contacts, connectors to both headlight for any corrosion or deterioration first. Placing a relay under these circumstances before checking the electrical may cause the relay to heat up.

Good luck..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

Roger Zimmermann

Well...I had the same experience with my '57 Brougham. When I have to warm it up, I do the same travel. On that road, there are some tunnels and in Europe, it is mandatory to put the headlamps on. I never had a problem until 2 years ago when in the tunnels the lamps began the cycle on/off. As I assume that the bimetal in the switch can get weak with the years, I installed a relay.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

How do you define 'Blinking?'  Do they go on and off or do they just dim and brighten?
Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

hudson29

Quote from: Jeff Rose on February 09, 2014, 04:01:16 PM
How do you define 'Blinking?'  Do they go on and off or do they just dim and brighten?
Jeff

The lights blink on and off. It is all the lights, not just the headlights. The ammeter needle swings wildly as this happens. I'll go through the connections with a wirebrush and make sure the contacts are tight & bright. That would probably be a good time to test the individual wires with a meter. If we still have the issue, I'm thinking of ordering the modern circuit breaker and installing that. It will be hidden from view and the wires are modern anyway. Nothing original will be harmed.

Vintage Paul
1939 Cadillac 6127 Coupé
1929 Hudson Town Sedan
1926 Hudson Anderson Bodied Coupé
1923 Ford Runabout

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

OK, thanks.
I was thinking it may have been resinstance in the circuit and the regulator kicking in and out...... but if they go off all the way then it's something else.
Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

jpindusi

IF the wiring and circuits all check OK, then the best solution in my view would be to install a relay but be sure to use a fuse with the relay to protect the wiring.  The relays I have seen have a fuse holder built onto the relay frame.
Joe, CLC 27887

austingta

Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on February 07, 2014, 03:29:25 AM
If nothing is wrong in the light circuit, I would insert a relay to by-pass the points.

That wouldn't bypass the points, but it would lower the load to signal-only, which should solve the problem.

Roger Zimmermann

Quote from: austingta on February 12, 2014, 11:41:03 PM
That wouldn't bypass the points, but it would lower the load to signal-only, which should solve the problem.
That's correct. My meaning was that the points don't have to carry the total current.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

russ austin

Cant remember the technical name, bit I would use a resetting circuit breaker. the fuse will blow, and your stranded. The resetting C/B will reset, giving you some drive time.
R.Austin

joeceretti

I installed a 30 amp self resetting breaker I found at a Harley shop. It is metal, looks period and has a nice mounting bracket included.