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1955 glass fuel filter bowl

Started by kkarrer, March 22, 2014, 11:26:37 PM

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kkarrer

Ok guys I've heard all sorts of explanations for this one... the glass fuel filter bowls on 1955 Cadillac 331's was turned upside down at the factory.  I'd like to hear a rationale for that.  I suspect that it had to do with getting the gas further up and away from the intake manifold thus avoiding vapor lock, but some say that the upside down configuration can also cause fuel flow problems.  My 55 convertible runs great when I have a homemade heat shield under the fuel line that runs between the glass filter bowl and the carb, but will miss and sputter when that shield is not present and the car has warmed and running at high way speed .  I've checked my operating temp with an infrared gun and the engine is operating at or just below the correct temp. The stock temperature gauge agrees.  My gas tank is new.  The fuel line is new stainless and the carb was just rebuilt by Daytona.  This problem was also noted before I replaced the aforementioned parts.  I'm going to put a heat shield fabric sleeve over the line and that will look better than my homemade metal heat shield, but that still doesn't answer the basic question re. the "upside down" fuel bowl.  I've built/restored a few of these cars now and two will go to Nationals for judging in New York this year and I don't want to risk the possibility of a point deduction for turning the fuel bowl "right side up" and it's possible that that will not matter anyway.  Interestingly I've also recently restored a 1941 6227D coupe.  The fuel came from the same gas station so the alcohol content was the same.  I had no such problems with the 41.
Ken Karrer
1955 model 62 convertible coupe
kkarrer@austin.rr.com

1941 6227D coupe

harry s

Hi Ken, Look forward to seeing you in NY. I'm not sure about the filter position, I'll leave that to the experts. I was talking to our local Stihl dealer about the ethonol problem. They did a random comparision of alcohol content at various stations in the area and found the alcohol content to be from just below 10% to as high as almost 15%. I'm not sure how sceientific his survey was but his point was how  harmful that stuff is to equipment.    Harry
Harry Scott 4195
1941 6733
1948 6267X
2011 DTS Platinum

Jon S

I believe the upside down fuel bowl design was for simpler factory production assembly and has nothing to do with vapor lock issues.  It is easier to see the gasket position when the filter is inverted.  By 1958, Cadillac mounted the bowl facing the bottom. 

As to Ethanol and vapor lock, I experienced my first vapor lock issues this past summer on the 1958 and my 1973 Lincoln and I attribute it to the Ethanol content in our gasoline.  Other than waiting a few minutes to re-start the cars, I have not experienced any negative effects from Ethanol inclusive of fuel pump or carburetor gaskets.

I did some research and discovered the addition of real Tetra Ethyl Lead and Marvel Mystery Oil raise the boiling point of the Ethanol gasoline and eliminated my vapor lock problems. 
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

D.Yaros

Quote from: Jon S on March 23, 2014, 11:33:26 AM
I did some research and discovered the addition of real Tetra Ethyl Lead and Marvel Mystery Oil raise the boiling point of the Ethanol gasoline and eliminated my vapor lock problems.
Do you have a source for "real Tetra Ethyl Lead" that you are able to share with us.  Suppliers of it are few and far between and hard to find.  All leads appreciated!
Dave Yaros
CLC #25195
55 Coupe de Ville
92 Allante
62 Olds  

You will find me on the web @:
http://GDYNets.atwebpages.com  -Dave's Den
http://graylady.atwebpages.com -'55 CDV site
http://www.freewebs.com/jeandaveyaros  -Saved 62 (Oldsmobile) Web Site
The home of Car Collector Chronicles.  A  monthly GDYNets newsletter focusing on classic car collecting.
http://www.scribd.com/D_Yaros/

Jon S

#4
I was fortunate enough to buy out 104+'s remaining stock with a friend of mine 25 years ago when they stopped manufacturing it and use it to this day.  I'm told a quart added to 20 gallons raises the Octane from 93 to 101.
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

35-709

1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.

As to the glass fuel bowl being inverted. The mechanics were told to do this starting in 1953 in the Cadillac Serviceman, July 1953, page 40. The article is titled "Fuel System Changes Reduce Vapor Lock".

The third paragraph states: "Hot idling characteristics have been improved by removing the fuel bowl from the fuel pump and placing the fuel filter in an inverted position".

So after the publication of this article the factory inverted the fuel bowl on assembly at least thru 1956 and possibly later, but I don't remember.

The Johnny
John Washburn
CLC #1067
1937 LaSalle Coupe
1938 6519F Series Imperial Sedan
1949 62 Series 4 Door
1949 60 Special Fleetwood
1953 Coupe DeVille
1956 Coupe DeVille
1992 Eldorado Touring Coupe America Cup Series

Jon S

John -

Through 1957.  Strange then that from 1958 forward they mounted it glass bowl on the bottom.  Maybe the gasoline improved or they found the Serviceman instructions really made no difference?  In any case, it's a lot easier and neater to change the element when the bowl faces up!
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

Jon S

Quote from: 35-709 on March 23, 2014, 02:02:25 PM
Here's a possibility ----

http://www.batterystuff.com/fuel-treatments/OScase.html

I did a search on it - $23.00 a bottle!!!  I think I paid $6.99/can for my 104+ TEL, but that was a long time ago.
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

kkarrer

Harry,
    Hope to see you at GNC as well.  I try to buy my fuel from the same Chevron place, but I'm sure it's possible that the ethanol varies a bit. As to fuel additives since it came up here, there's something called Carb Defender which you only need to add to your fuel  once or twice  in order to treat the carb and protect it from the effects of ethanol.  I saw some before and after carbs up at our local speed shop here in Austin and the results were impressive.  Also, Daytona Carb is now putting a note in the carbs that they rebuild to remind owner/installers that by going for the higher octane fuel or by using many off the shelf octane boosters, you may in fact just be adding more ethanol to your gas.  Read the contents on all octane boosters.  If you can find the stuff that kicks in some T.E. lead (good luck) you're probably ok, but if the contents is just a higher dose of ethanol you may be doing more harm than good.  I also use some MM oil or Sea Foam as a gas additive.  I just finished putting a sleeve made from some of that close weave fire retardant stuff on the fuel line that leads from the glass bowl to the carb.  We'll see how that does.  The idea that it's easier to install the bowl upside down is true, but it's also true that the gas is further away from the manifold heat when the bowl is inverted so it's possible that Cadillac had both things in mind, but it's interesting that they later turned them back down.  Most 53-55 331's that I've encountered actually run cooler than than the later engines that I've worked on...especially 56's.  So flipping it back down really doesn't make much sense unless they found that it just didn't matter or that the actual fuel flow was better in the "glass bowl down" configuration.
Thanks to all,
Ken Karrer  1955 model 62 convertible coupe
1941 6227D coupe

J. Gomez

Ken,

A couple of possibilities, just a theory..!

One, the bowl been upside down would fill the bowl quicker and thus pass the fuel up to the carb.

The fuel will have to pass the filter element and exit at the center of the element to the outlet cavity. 

Two, as the inlet and outlet are at the same label and the bowl has fuel. Once the engine is off the fuel left on the bowl would keep a small supply for the carb, until the pump refills it again.

Since the Shop Manual shows the bowl upside down, it would be obvious the judging criteria for the year and model would take in consideration the fuel bowl position.   

Others can chime in with other options/theories.


Good luck..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

Jon S

#11
First, the fuel enters through the center of the filter fills the bowl and then flows through the element and exits out the small filter holes to feed the carburator. At least on the non-AC models so your theory on the gas flow is backwards.

That's why sediment falls to the bottom of the bowl when mounted bowl down.

Thinking about it sediment on the bottom is easy to see for cleaning intevals and would not decrease gas flow whereas an upside down bowl would permit sediment to block the filter and affect gas flow!
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

J. Gomez

Quote from: Jon S on March 23, 2014, 07:14:47 PM
First, the fuel enters through the center of the filter fills the bowl and then flows through the element and exits out the small filter holes to feed the carburator. At least on the non-AC models so your theory on the gas flow is backwards.

Jon,

I was referring to the filter element itself were the holes which the fuel exist are place at the center of the filter element. I know it is confusing in plain words, so as the old say goes a picture is worth 1000 words.

The holes which the fuel exits are place at the center of the filter element blue arrow.   

Hope this clears the confusion..!
J. Gomez
CLC #23082

Jon S

#13
Agreed. We are saying the same thing.   Your reference to the center of the element led me to the inlet hole in the center.
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.

Ok, I can't take it any longer.

Under the hood you have three types of heat (way over simplified):

Conduction - direct contact to a heat source like a hot manifold without a phenolic spacer between the carburetor and the manifold

Convection - this is when the engine gets hot and surrounds the object and heats it

Radiation - this is like putting a hot dog on a twig and putting it next to the fire

Each of these take a different mitigation strategy...

May be a good article for the Self Starter in July

The Johnny
John Washburn
CLC #1067
1937 LaSalle Coupe
1938 6519F Series Imperial Sedan
1949 62 Series 4 Door
1949 60 Special Fleetwood
1953 Coupe DeVille
1956 Coupe DeVille
1992 Eldorado Touring Coupe America Cup Series

Roger Zimmermann

That bowl in the up position always confused me; if I remember well, I tried to put it down on my '56 de Ville, but I could not because of lack of space . It could be done if the filter body is not attached to the pump with that short threaded tube but with an offset one.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Tom Todd

A friend and I were discussing the differences between the gas filters for non-air conditioned cars and the air conditioned ones.  After about 1957, the air conditioned cars have a different filter specified that seems to be (at least in the case of the 1960 and 1964 cars that I've owned) to be a filter that's capped on top compared to the non-air condtioned filter which is open on the top -- irrespective of whether the glass bowl points upward or downwards.  My 1955, of course, has the glass bowl on top of the filter assembly pointing upwards.  Anyway, it seems to me in my '55 that when the bowl fills, gas flows up through the open top of the filter into the bowl.  Hence, any dirt, etc. would enter the bowl and settle to the bottom of the filter assembly -- a glass bowl that is underneath the filter assembly would accumulate dirt, etc. at the bottom of the bowl away from the assembly and the gas intake for the carburetor.  If gas for the carburetor in the open-topped, non-air conditioning filter is taken in from the bowl and then passed out through the small holes about the center of the filter's bottom, it's seems to me that it's just going to get mixed with the fuel already in the bowl, dirt and all.  How then is clean, filtered fuel passed to the carburetor in such a situation?  The situation with the capped filter in the air conditioned cars seems more straight forward, because the cap would seemingly force gasoline to pass through the filter and into the bowl and not pass unfiltered fuel out through an open top as the style filter in the non-air conditioned cars apparently does.  Can anyone explain how this works?  It's quite clear from parts lists which filter should go with which kind of set-up, but I can't figure out how they should work.  Thanks.

Jon S

Quote from: Tom Todd on June 17, 2016, 11:36:52 AM
A friend and I were discussing the differences between the gas filters for non-air conditioned cars and the air conditioned ones.  After about 1957, the air conditioned cars have a different filter specified that seems to be (at least in the case of the 1960 and 1964 cars that I've owned) to be a filter that's capped on top compared to the non-air condtioned filter which is open on the top -- irrespective of whether the glass bowl points upward or downwards.  My 1955, of course, has the glass bowl on top of the filter assembly pointing upwards.  Anyway, it seems to me in my '55 that when the bowl fills, gas flows up through the open top of the filter into the bowl.  Hence, any dirt, etc. would enter the bowl and settle to the bottom of the filter assembly -- a glass bowl that is underneath the filter assembly would accumulate dirt, etc. at the bottom of the bowl away from the assembly and the gas intake for the carburetor.  If gas for the carburetor in the open-topped, non-air conditioning filter is taken in from the bowl and then passed out through the small holes about the center of the filter's bottom, it's seems to me that it's just going to get mixed with the fuel already in the bowl, dirt and all.  How then is clean, filtered fuel passed to the carburetor in such a situation?  The situation with the capped filter in the air conditioned cars seems more straight forward, because the cap would seemingly force gasoline to pass through the filter and into the bowl and not pass unfiltered fuel out through an open top as the style filter in the non-air conditioned cars apparently does.  Can anyone explain how this works?  It's quite clear from parts lists which filter should go with which kind of set-up, but I can't figure out how they should work.  Thanks.

Well. almost.  I can only speak for my 1958 non-air conditioned filter.  It was factory mounted right side up and the sediment does fall to the bottom of the bowl (very little, if any). 

Here's the interesting part - the fuel level in the bowl rarely fills up to the top.  Most times it is 1/2 to 3/4 filled so the sediment (if any) stays at the bottom of the bowl. 

I've often wondered how the carburetor receives the fuel without the bowl being totally full but was told by the Cadillac Service Manager back in the 1950's "That's how they should be."
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

55 ledsled


Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

I don't see how that could possibly work............ it is just too clean.
Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille