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Axle O ring seal- is the shop manual wrong??

Started by MY 59, March 24, 2014, 07:09:53 AM

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MY 59

So I just had new bearings pressed onto my axles as one was worn and making that great pulsing booming sound. The ones that came out had the seal one inside and one outside opposite to each other. The manual actually shows the O ring to the inside of the axle when being pressed on (fig 7-8)

I now have a feeling this is wrong?? As an earlier diagram shows the seal to the outside

Why would the manual contradict itself, and which way will work,if the picture is wrong I will not be impressed!!!

Any help appreciated
Thanks
David Bone :)

1959 Cadillac Sedan Deville
1967 (aussie) ZA ford Fairlane

The Tassie Devil(le)

G'day David,

I don't think it matters which side the "O"Ring is on, so long as both sides of the bearing is still sealed.

The worst thing that can happen to these bearings is if the side seal is gone, and this allows the diff oil to wash out the pre-packed grease.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

txturbo

If the bearing has a seal on both sides it doesn't matter how it's installed. If the bearing only has one side sealed then the seal goes to the outside. The o-ring doesn't matter as long as it's inside the tube it will seal either way.
D. Roden
1956 Coupe De Ville PINK
1963 Cadillac Sedan De Ville

dadscad

The rubber oil seal with the spring gator, faces the differential. Be sure the seal is properly seated and tight in the bearing. I've seen some new bearings, right out of the box, that the seals were not properly installed/seated.
Enjoy The Ride,
David Thomas CLC #14765
1963 Coupe deVille

MY 59

thanks for the responses guys,
both bearings I took out you could see the ball bearings to the inside! the internal seal completely gone
wanted to take her for a spin thismorning to see how much difference the new ones made but it is raining :(
David Bone :)

1959 Cadillac Sedan Deville
1967 (aussie) ZA ford Fairlane

Roger Zimmermann

As it was not so clear for me which way they are installed, I asked the supplier (Terrill Machine). His answer was: the side which has the spring is to be installed towards the wheel. This is the sealed side.
If you read the shop manual from this time, it is clearly stated that the bearing is lubricated by the rear axle oil. The original bearings had a real seal on one side (towards the wheel) and there was just a filler on the side towards the differential.
I had recently a discussion with a friend who was installing the bearings and he had the same remark about the exterior o-ring. In fact, there is a drawing which shows clearly the set-up of the diff and one bearing, for example fig. 7-1 in the '57 shop manual. Here, the o-ring is towards the wheel. On the fig. 7-8, the o-ring is towards the differential! Probably even at GM is was not clear which way the bearings are installed...
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

MY 59

David Bone :)

1959 Cadillac Sedan Deville
1967 (aussie) ZA ford Fairlane

Roger Zimmermann

Because in all the years the same set-up was used, GM took the same pictures for the yearly shop manuals...
By the way, in my previous message, my friend wanted to replace the bearings because he is doing a complete restoration of his '59 Sixty special. One bearing was still the original one with the shield towards the differential and the seal towards the wheel, the other bearing was replaced before my friend bought the car; on this bearing the spring, therefore the seal, was installed towards the differential... which is, according to the supplier, the wrong way.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

The Tassie Devil(le)

The last bearings I purchased were a totally sealed bearing that had the seal on both sides.

I still have one left

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Roger Zimmermann

Bruce, you have probably that, look at the pictures:

1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

The Tassie Devil(le)

Ah ha, I see it now, and even looking at the bearing I have, it was VERY difficult to see the spring, even knowing where to look.   But, the flash brought it to light.

Plus, there are the words "PRESS HERE" etched into the inner cone to ensure that this side went towards the diff.

Bruce. >:D

'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Roger Zimmermann

With your bearing, the mystery is now complete! As you are writing, the side with the spring is going towards the differential, which is the contrary of what my supplier said. I assume that the manufacturer knows what he is doing by etching that sentence on the inner race.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

The Tassie Devil(le)

Plus, the outer side of the bearing inner cone has a radius to indicate which way it goes onto the axle, and supposedly up against the outer axle flange.........BUT, the Workshop Manual gives a dimension for the bearing to be sited away from the flange.

Bruce.  >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Roger Zimmermann

Bruce, thanks your pictures, I just asked Terrill Machine about the right way of installation. I'm wondering what they will tell...I'll let you know.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

MY 59

Bruce's 'press here' pic shows the outer O ring would be facing the inside of the differential, so I have had mine done correctly I guess

just as well I was on that particular page of the manual hey!
David Bone :)

1959 Cadillac Sedan Deville
1967 (aussie) ZA ford Fairlane

The Tassie Devil(le)

I have a feeling that the reason the "O" Ring is on the inside is to limit the possibility of oil getting too far in behind the outer bearing surface, and thus increasing the possibility of the bearing being able to move in the slippery area.

Putting it close to the inside results in the housing being mostly dry and therefore stable.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Roger Zimmermann

This morning, I got an answer from Terrill Machine. However, his explanation does not convince me; I'm looking further...
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Roger Zimmermann

Ah! Now the problem is solved. My supplier was wrong, he admit it himself. He found a good description in the '63 Cadillac shop manual which is attached to this message. The seal with the spring can be replaced, therefore it goes towards the differential.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

The Tassie Devil(le)

'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe