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1960 Tri-power wont start cold

Started by 60eldo, April 09, 2014, 07:04:23 PM

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60eldo

         When my car sits overnight and I try to start it in the morning it wont start. I pour some gas into the center carb and it starts rigt up and drives perfectly. When I press the gas and look down the carb only a couple of drops are coming out so if I press the gas pedal in the morning about 55 times it starts. Whats with this,,,is it the acelerator pump?
Jon. Klu

Dave Shepherd

Float level, fuel draining out of the bowl from a porous casting or, bad accel pump. but that would also be felt on acceleration, could be a leaking base or bowl plug also.  Ether way the carb should come apart. 2 GC carbs are not too complicated. If you find nothing definitive fill the bowl and let it sit on a piece of newspaper for a few hours, see if you can see any leak down.

60eldo

    They were all rebuilt last year
Jon. Klu

Scot Minesinger

Are you real confident in the re-build, based on what you write it does sound like the carb is not working for you?  A healthy carb should squirt some gas via the accel pump when throttle is pressed.  55 throttle pumps would flood any functioning carb.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

60eldo

    yes , but not if only a couple of drops per each acel press,,,can I say also say that the reason for the rebiuld was rear carb caught ion fire, and when I got the carbs back the rear was flooding,,,,,when I looked the rear float was sunk full of gas,,,,,,,he never replaced the floats,,or I guess never checked them
Jon. Klu

The Tassie Devil(le)

No matter how many times you pump the pedal, after the first couple and it won't start, it means the fuel bowl is insufficiently full enough to allow the accelerator pump to be successfully primed.

Cranking the engine to operate the fuel pump is the only way to refill the carby fuel bowl.   Or simply take off the air cleaner and pour a bit down the centre carby then crank and it will (should) fire immediately.

Bruce. >:D

'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

joeceretti

#6
The known fact that he did a half way rebuild would make me suspect the carbs. That combined with it being a typical failure commonly based on a bowl not holding fuel absolutely points in the direction you should be looking in.

It's not likely the pump or you would know when driving.

76eldo

I would get the center carb rebuilt again.
Something is not right if he bowl is empty when you go to start it.
Mine sits for weeks or months at a time and or course I have to crank it to get fuel in the carb but it always fires o. It's own and I don't have to put gas in the carb manually.

I did have a 64 that wouldn't start cold unless you have it a shot of starting fluid. Very annoying.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Scot Minesinger

I think the consensus is that the carbs were not rebuilt correctly.  I have only found one place that rebuilds Quadra-jets to my liking.  It seems good carb rebuilds are not common, unfortunately.  Does anyone know of a place that rebuilds these carbs reliably or is it best to rebuild them yourself?  The great thing about rebuilding them yourself is when there is reason an extra couple of hours are required to do something correctly, or over again, it is always done as opposed to a shop which might be tempted to cut that corner.

Further, I remember reading something in Self Starter or this form about rear carbs causing fires and some folks deactivate the rear carb and have the two front carbs work - we don't race these cars.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

76eldo

I used Bowen Carburetion in Levittown, Pa.

This guy has been doing carbs since the early 70's or maybe even before.

Almost every car back then had a Rochester on it and he did a great job on mine.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Jon S

If it is still squirting gas after 55 pumps, sounds like the accelerator pump jets are clogged.  After 3 pumps, the bowl should be depleted of gas; unless you are cranking/pumping/cranking/pumping.  I go with a bad accelerator pump.
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

60eldo

#11
     Jon,,,I am cranking and pumping,,,,,and when I look down the center carb I just see few drops going down, not enough gas to start her. Should I maybe in the morning take off the top of the carb and see if theres ant gas in the bowl??
Jon. Klu

Jon S

#12
Then it's either a bad accelerator pump, plugged accelerator pump passageway jets or missing ball bearing at bottom of accelerator pump chamber (ball check).
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

35-709

"Does anyone know of a place that rebuilds these carbs reliably or is it best to rebuild them yourself?"

Daytona Parts --- http://www.daytonaparts.com/
They specialize in old and antique carburetors (which most of them are these days  :))

1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

Jon S

Quote from: 35-709 on April 10, 2014, 10:13:48 AM
"Does anyone know of a place that rebuilds these carbs reliably or is it best to rebuild them yourself?"

Daytona Parts --- http://www.daytonaparts.com/
They specialize in old and antique carburetors (which most of them are these days  :))

I find if you want it done correctly, do it yourself.  Too many 'experts" out there who are basically expert at charging a lot of money for questionable work be it carburetors or other restoration work.  I've been rebuilding carburetors for over 50 years and there is no rocket science to getting it right.  JMHO
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

Dave Shepherd

Quote from: Jon S on April 10, 2014, 10:19:29 AM
I find if you want it done correctly, do it yourself.  Too many 'experts" out there who are basically expert at charging a lot of money for questionable work be it carburetors or other restoration work.  I've been rebuilding carburetors for over 50 years and there is no rocket science to getting it right.  JMHO
Seconded on all points!

Roger Zimmermann

Despite of what all said, I would have a look at the fuel pump. The poor pumps from this time are so silly placed in the middle of the V, they catch all the heat of the engine and can go wrong in a short time.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Jon S

Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on April 10, 2014, 01:28:30 PM
Despite of what all said, I would have a look at the fuel pump. The poor pumps from this time are so silly placed in the middle of the V, they catch all the heat of the engine and can go wrong in a short time.

The problem stated was a cold start issue . . . I'm assuming the car runs fine once started; thereby, ruling out the fuel pump.
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

76eldo

I listed a reputable carb rebuilder. He did mine. My car starts hot, cold, whatever.
I know a lot about cars but there are tricks and tips that a pro that rebuilds carbs knows far better than me.

Do a carb yourself?  That's not wise unless you know exactly what you are doing.

Maybe you should put an electric fuel pump down on the frame near the tank and that will solve your problem for now.  It's not good to crank a cold dry engine so much.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

60eldo

     OK,,,I solved the problem and I feel lets say SILLY? Looking at it this morning COLD I looked at the butterfly and it was open about 1/4 inch,,,,,I then adjusted it to close tight, well guess what, sorry to bother you guys but it started up in 1 second, just pumped it twice. Well what can I say,,,,thanks to all
Jon. Klu