1948 61 R.H door Handle

[cadillac60]

My 48 Cadillac door handle fell off in my hand & I am not sure if the door handle set screw has come loose or would it be something more serious. When I put the handle back on it will open the door & lock as before but you can still pull it off. Any comments would certainly be appreciated.

Bruce W

[Jay Friedman]

It sounds like the door handle lock screw became loose and may or may not have come out of its threads and fallen to the bottom of the inside of the door. 

As you know, the outside door handles on 48 (and 49) Cadillacs are attached to a 3 or 4 inch long square shaft that is perpendicular to the axis of the handle and which goes into the door.  Inside the door, the male shaft goes into a square female hole in the door latch mechanism. This male shaft is held into the female hole by a lock screw that is, in turn, perpendicular to the axis of the shaft. On some cars the screw has an ordinary slotted head and on other cars the screw is really a small bolt with a ¼ inch hex head.

Let’s assume it is a front door (rear doors may be the same).  To access the screw/bolt, peel back the rubber weather-strip on the side of the door at a point slightly above the level of the door latch. In doing so, you will uncover a small hole in the door about a ½ inch in diameter.  Shine a flashlight into the hole so you can see the screw head, which is 2 or 3 inches down inside the door. This will reveal whether the screw head requires a screwdriver, a ¼ inch socket or, in your case, whether it is missing altogether.  If it requires a ¼ inch socket, the hole is sometimes too narrow in diameter to admit the socket into the hole.  If this is the case, enlarge the hole with a file or use a ¼ inch nut driver which has a narrower head than a socket. 

If the screw or bolt is there, insert the door handle in all the way in and tighten it.   If the screw or bolt is not there, insert the handle in all the way in and, using a magnetic screwdriver, install a new screw or bolt and tighten it.  I think the screw thread is ¼-28 (fine thread) and 3/4 inch long, but I'm not sure.  Unless you are real ambitious, forget about the missing screw or bolt at the bottom of the inside of the door, since it's a big job taking the door apart to get to it.

[cadillac60]

Jay,
Thank you for your information.  As you can appreciate it is very difficult to see thru the hole in the door pillar hole but it appeared to be no sign of a bolt head or a slot screw head. I used a very small wire and went up from the inside of the cavity of the door handle thru the threaded tube & then was able to see the wire from the hole in the door pillar.  So as you said the door handle lock screw could have fallen to the bottom of the inside of the door.
So at least I can start to put a new screw in but it is a matter of knowing what size?

Bruce W

[Jay Friedman]

Bruce,

I have a spare door latch. Later today, I'll go to a hardware store, buy a ¼-28 (fine thread), 3/4 inch long screw and see if it fits.  Will let you know.

Jay

[Jay Friedman]

Bruce, I can confirm that the 48-49 door handle lock screw is a ¼-28 (fine thread), 3/4 inch long screw or bolt. 

[49caddyman]

To expound a bit on Jay's observations/comments, I've never seen one of these door setscrews with a regular slotted head.  I've seen two types...one has a "female" hex head where you'd need an allen wrench to remove it.  The other type, which I believe replaced this type of setscrew, has a hex head requiring the use of a 1/4" nutdriver to remove it. 
   It sounds to me that your setscrew, as Jay stated, has simply loosened up, or fallen out.  The former scenario it more common.  Joe Cutler

[cadillac60]

Thanks Jay will work on getting this repair done.  Thanks to everyone that has sent info I cant tell you how important all this info is,

Many thanks

Bruce W

[Jay Friedman]

Joe is right about the types of screws Cadillac supplied, but you can replace the missing screw with any ¼-28, 3/4 inch long screw as long as the head will fit through the hole in the side of the door. 

[Jay Friedman]

Bruce,

In fact, now that I think about it, the set screw requiring an Allen wrench which Joe described is probably the best idea if you are replacing a missing door handle screw inside the door.  They are officially called "socket head cap screws" or just Allen screw.  The advantage is that you can put the screw on the end of an Allen wrench where it will most likely "stick".  As such, it probably won't fall off as you insert it the wrench into the hole in the door and attempt to screw it into the latch mechanism.  Maybe you'd better have more than one screw on hand just in case.

[Jeff Maltby 4194]

Put a drop of super glue on it when installing to hold in place so you don't drop and as I recall, the hole is too small to get a 1/4" socket through ?

[49caddyman]

Ironically, & coincidentally, I just went through quite the "experience" this past week in the "door handle dept." on a '48 convertible a customer owns.  He was complaining about the infamous "door handle droop" problem that plagues many '48 & '49's.  The "door handle droop" on '48-'49 convertibles, & '49 CDV, can usually be remedied, as ONLY on these models, Cadillac employed a similar-looking door latch assembly, but on the conv. & CDV, it's actually completely different than the other models.  Conv. & CDV's have a threaded adjusting rod connected between the door latch assembly & a cast, machined bronze "tumbler" with setscrew, located in the top of the door, into which the door handle shaft fits & is secured with the setscrew.
  I now know how to adjust the door handle droop on these models, after a lot of close scrutiny, mucho patience, and a litany of choice expletives directed towards the Cadillac "engineer(s)" who designed this Rube Goldberg setup.  I don't think they could have developed a more insidious, complicated arrangement. 
   I found that BOTH door had the "socket setscrew" that Jay describes.  These can be removed using a "T"-handle allen wrench...it has a very long shaft & works nicely for the socket type setscrew.
   Much to my dismay, horror, & chagrin I discovered that some "wizard" had managed to completely destroy the internal hex portion of the setscrew on the driver's side.  I had to laboriously cut the door handle off with a hacksaw in order to extricate the plate with the bronze tumbler, then had to drill out the remnants of the wrecked setscrew & rethread it with a tap.  Tons of fun.
   I altered a standard 1/4" nutdriver in order for it to reach far enough into the edge of the door to install & remove the 1/4" hexhead type setscrew.  As Jeff correctly stated, the hole in the edge of the door is not large enough to fit the tip of a nutdriver through.  I carefully ground the outer edge of a nutdriver on my bench grinder, making the O.D. smaller.  In addition, I had to grind off about 1/2"-3/4" off the handle on the end that the nutdriver shank is mounted, i order to clear the edge of the door when inserting the nutdriver through the setscrew access hole.  I also drilled this hole very slightly larger, & it worked out fine.  I discarded both "socket type" setscrews & installed the 1/4" hexhead setscrews in their place.  I used a small, thin strip of masking tape wrapped around the setcrew once it was inserted into the nutdriver to hold it until I got it threaded.
   I took many photos of the adjustable door handle rod & related components, & plan to write a "How To" article for the Self Starter in the near future, as t seems not many guys know how to remedy the door handle droop problem on the '48-'49 conv. & CDV's.  Joe Cutler   

[48ragtop]

I hadn't seen this topic or I would have replied earlier.   

Joe is the expert on this matter.   He is talking about my 48 that he had been working on for me.   The door handles are beautiful now but I do know it took a lot of time and many four letter words to get to that point.   

Joe, I look forward to your Self Starter article on this subject.

Thanks,

Ed Wisniewski
CLC No. 26482

[cadillac60]

Thanks everyone for your info, It is now fixed and working just fine.

Bruce W

[gary griffin]

For screws in hard to reach places I just put a small hole in a piece of masking tape and put the screw through it from the sticky side and put a screwdriver in the slot and affix the tape to the blade of the screwdrivers shaft. When the screw is almost tight I simply pull it up and the tape stays on the screwdriver.  I figured this out when I was putting points and condenser in a slant six with the distributor on the lower side.