1959 Series 62 Black Convertible on EBAY

[Pedal2Metal]

You will see this one on Ebay with a Buy Now price of $86,800. It is pretty (and pretty expensive too).  A color change car with some replacement sheet metal. In the last few pics on Ebay you will see some bolts protruding through the floorpan. Also, in the trunk, not shown here but I have seen other pics, there are long fasteners for the outside trim that go through the rear quarter and poke out into the trunk maybe 1-1.5". These would normally be hidden by the trunk liner. Question:  are these protrusions (underside and trunk) factory correct (hard to believe) …or is something else going on? Not knocking the car…just trying to learn.
Rob

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

I've looked through photos in the eBay listing of the car you mentioned.

While I'm not in a position to answer the question about the bolts, I can say that is the least of the car's problems regarding its authenticity and correctness -  if that is your chief concern.

Agreed, it is pretty, but also expensive - and incorrect in a substantial number of areas. 

Here is the listing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cadillac-Other-62-1959-Cadillac-Series-62-Convertible-Full-Restoration-Gorgeous-/141339941866?forcerrptr=true&hash=item20e8845bea&item=141339941866&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

[INTMD8]

It seems seat belts were added. I'm guessing that's the fasteners you are seeing underneath.

[Alan Harris CLC#1513]

Except for the stupid fuzzy dice (two pair, no less!), it could sit in my garage anytime.

[Richardonly]

Hello All,

Am I seeing white PAINTED bulletts both front and rear?  So many people take these apart to bring the stainless back to factory look.  Now you have to remove paint also?

Richard

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Hello All,

Am I seeing white PAINTED bulletts both front and rear?  So many people take these apart to bring the stainless back to factory look.  Now you have to remove paint also?

Richard

Richard,

I believe both grilles (front & rear) had been sprayed over with some sort of chrome or aluminum color paint. My guess is original anodized aluminum had deteriorated and a quicky buzz bombing was the method the restorer chose to address it.

A "real" '59 Series 62 convertible could be had for similar coinage; I doubt there will be much of a stampede for this example at the asking price.

[Tito Sobrinho]

Richard:

I also have noticed the painted bullets.

Alan:

Those pair of fuzzy dice would be buried in my back yard with a sign..."Rest In Peace"!

[Jon S]

I've looked through photos in the eBay listing of the car you mentioned.

While I'm not in a position to answer the question about the bolts, I can say that is the least of the car's problems regarding its authenticity and correctness -  if that is your chief concern.

Agreed, it is pretty, but also expensive - and incorrect in a substantial number of areas. 

Here is the listing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cadillac-Other-62-1959-Cadillac-Series-62-Convertible-Full-Restoration-Gorgeous-/141339941866?forcerrptr=true&hash=item20e8845bea&item=141339941866&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

Not looking to buy, but to learn.  I noticed the painted bullets also and not sure about the correctness of the interior.  What else is wrong with the car?  There were no trunk or engine pics, so I can't comment there.  Just trying to educate myself on 1959's.

[Pedal2Metal]

To see more pics go to the consignee/seller site classicpromenade.com. They are in Temecula, CA. Look at pics 101-111 for the undercarriage. The ad says "heavy undercoat which is correct for the period." I see that as a warning and not a plus. And for the trunk see pics 116-117. See those long fasteners coming through? Can that be right?  Why go through all this resto and leave that? I don't get it. The car appears to have the trunk liner pulled back or there isn't one. The matte finish on the grills is curious. It has either been sprayed over or is just dull and needs polish or re-anodization. The interior is nice leather but it doesn't appear Cadillac correct. What do you think? I have to tell you, ugh, I want to LIKE this car but price and issues scare me.

[Jeff Wilk]

My two cents after doing a very substantial resto on our 59 Fleetwood which weve owned for 30 years.

Bolts showing through undercarriage are from the added seatbelts

Interior is not original style but looks nice...not great... But real nice

Paint seems very very nice as does chrome

Grills front and rear UGHHhHh!!!! Not bad looking i guess but totally not original and you could get complete new repro/restored for about $5,000

Engine compartment has several not original fixes/upgrades like:
     Wrong master cylinder
     Misrouted cables
     New and odd relays
     Wrong air cleaner


NOW with all that said the car looks REAL NICE. So the question is do you want an absolute original or something close that nobody but the folks on this site will know?  If the later, the not correct items can be fixed easy except for the interior and grills.

As for price?  I think it is market priced and no bargain here. BUT if it is a quick ride you want and not crazy about everything back to factory spec it seems like a good deal. Id not be surprised to see this one snatched up, crated, and shipped overseas quickly.

I have mo connection to this car, just know what it takes to get a project and bring it to this level.

Let us know what you do.....

Jeff
     

[Pedal2Metal]

Jeff - Your observations are very helpful. The interior is not Caddy leather style, but it has its own elegance. I'm not hung up on total originality for this car. Having said that, the air cleaner is…put a finger down my throat…on the other hand it's practical...and an original can be found easily. Reanodizing the grills…expensive…but the bullets seem all there and everything looks straight. The long thin bolts or studs or whatever they are in the trunk are so weird (to me). I came across a black/black/black 1960 62 Convertible which was so nice, not perfect, kinda like this, hesitated, and woosh…two weeks later it was sold to Dubai. You will see a York Blue 60 62 Convertible on Ebay now too. I had that one sent to a garage for inspection (never actually saw the car in person). Mechanics said several fluid leaks and some other stuff but all fixable -- spongy floorpans a worry though.  Then there is the biggest gamble of all: a 1960 Biarritz convertible with factory buckets -- color change, missing tripower, grills are bad, needs LOTS of work (my list is a page long on this one).  Google Frank Corrente Cadillac Corner in LA to see it. Decisions decisions. My money is earned the old fashioned way so I'm kinda slow to buy, and sell, which leads to missed opportunities but it seems to work out in the long run. I'm not disparaging any of these cars, in fact each one has its appeal, but…. 

[Grant Owen]

In my opinion the car has had an amateur restoration a few years back. As for the Grills the Whitish color is what happens when the Grills are polished so much it strips the anodising will stay shiny for a while then it will start oxidising going dull making a dull powdery effect.

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

Well I'm not paying $80K unless they paint the seatbelt bolts black. 
You have to draw the line somewhere.
Jeff

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Aside of authenticity issues, panel fitment is very poor from hood to windshield intake cowl, skirts and trunk lid molding.

That's just what can be seen in pictures; these items will appear far worse in person - AND all that - is only the tip of the iceberg.

Quite frankly, this has "quick and dirty" restoration written all over it and the seller is hoping to find a fish who doesn't know the difference. Maybe he will, but I doubt it. Nowadays, the average classic car buyer is a hell of a lot shrewder than had been. Since the initial surge of vintage cars as an "alternative investment" began some 2 decades ago a lot of investors (more appropriately, speculators) had gotten burned - big time - because they failed to distinguish between the glitter and the gold.

Now, everybody is educated - at least the most serious buyers are. 

While many may well consider most of this car's restoration flaws and/or authenticity demerits trivial or unimportant, this is not the case - as it brings the integrity of the entire restoration into question- particularly when the basics are substandard. Time stands still for no restoration (even good ones). And it will become painfully evident 5 or 10 years down the road. That's my guess in regards to this example.

It is also my guess this is what 99% of the buyers for a car like this will also be thinking. If the car were the real deal, it would have been sold in a shot. 

I'll take an excellent original '59 Coupe deVille over a lipsticked and made-up turkey of a droptop, any time, any day of the week - for the same money.

[C.R. Patton II]

Hello Eric

Thank you for sharing an expert's assessment with us.  Unfortunately predators lure newbies with dummy bait.  Anyone seeking to acquire a Cadillac or LaSalle should:

(A) Join the club
(B) Be nice to make friends so knowledge is disseminated
(C) Select an era and model to learn about condition, mechanical and value
(D) Take a friend or appraiser to inspect the car before you purchase.

Do not be a fish.

[Chris Conklin]

My opinion; spending almost $90K affords you a lot of scrutiny and you should have an expectation of getting a very correct and well finished vehicle (or what was a very expensive and fairly extreme modified build). I'd keep looking beyond this car.

I believe that you are looking at a '60 here in Los Angeles also and Cliff Gribaud ay be able to inspect it for you? FYI: You are in excellent hands with him. An absolute expert on these cars.

Good luck in your search, keep us posted please!

[Pedal2Metal]

Chris, my reaction is the same. The car is around $15K too high. So I'm moving on. The '60 will get inspected, because it's rare enough to deserve a closer look, but I'm not too optimistic about that one either. Half the fun is the chase so I'm in no hurry...

[wrench]

The undercoating looks like "Rust-oleum 10x Restore"...

[Coupe Deville]

80,000 Dollars and it's not even the correct air cleaner.

[David Greenburg]

One other thing I noticed that is odd- there are no controls for the vent windows; no cranks, but no indication of electric vents, either.