News:

Due to a technical issue, some recently uploaded pictures have been lost. We are investigating why this happened but the issue has been resolved so that future uploads should be safe.  You can also Modify your post (MORE...) and re-upload the pictures in your post.

Main Menu

1952 brake hardware identification

Started by Philippe M. Ruel, July 09, 2014, 02:21:35 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Philippe M. Ruel

Hello :)

After the accident my car had 4 years ago, I had to replace many front suspension parts, and I am now on the process of re-installing brakes (I removed and replaced master and all 4 wheel cylinders).
Unfortunately, I dismantled everything without taking pictures, as I was concentrated on the difficulty of getting some suspension parts.
So I have a few questions for you aficionados.

Question 1 - anchor pin spacer : I have 4 spacers, 1 on each wheel. They are of 2 types (see picture), probably front and rear. The question is, which one is front and which one is rear ? Both fit front and rear.

Question 2 - unknown plate : I have 1 steel plate (see picture, still looking for the second one...) that I believe fits on rear, where brake backing plate bolts to rear axle housing flange and oil drain plate. How should it fit there ?

Question 3 - brake shoe strut rod spring : On rear brakes, shoes are kept distant by a strut rod, which has a little spring (see picture). The question is, how should this spring be installed ? (4 possible positions, see picture)

Question 4 - drum silencer springs : I had the drums powder coated, with silencer springs (the looong springs around the drums) removed. My first tries to re-install these springs, using large screwdrivers as pry bars started damaging the coating.  Question : how can I install them properly without damage ?


Thank you for your input :)

1952 60 Special in France.

Roger Zimmermann

Hi Philippe!
Your first question: I have the impression that it's not important. The spacers are installed between the shoes and the retracting springs, just preventing that the shoes are dislodged. As the shoes are the same front and rear...you can have your own conclusion.
Second item: it's used on the rear shield, on the outside and down.
Third question: I have the impression that they can be installed the way you like. They go further to clear the slit.
And the last one: I was also faced with that problem. After a while, I expanded the springs just enough to roll them on the drums...
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Philippe M. Ruel

Thank you Roger ;)

#1 : front and rear brake shoes are different in size, although the pattern is the same.
#2 : by "outside" do you mean outer side of the car (inside brakes, between backing plate and drum) or inner side of the car (out of brakes, between flange and differential) ?
#3 : yes, spring does slip further - I took these pictures awkwardly. I'll ask Christian, who often has ideas about such situations.
#4 : one of them was expanded on removal, now I'm not too confident in it staying in place. These are really not of the cooperating type.
1952 60 Special in France.

Roger Zimmermann

Quote from: Philippe M. Ruel on July 09, 2014, 11:46:06 PM

#2 : by "outside" do you mean outer side of the car (inside brakes, between backing plate and drum) or inner side of the car (out of brakes, between flange and differential) ?
Have a look at your picture: you can see the mark from the bolt heads, so you have the answer! I suppose that the purpose from this little part is to prevent the road dirt to come into the brake assembly.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Jay Friedman

The spacer in picture 1 is slightly indented at one end.  You'll see that either the primary or secondary shoe is slightly indented (I forget which wheel and which shoe) so install accordingly.

The metal piece in photo 2 goes on the bottom of the outside of the rear wheel backing plates just under the bolt heads where the rear axle joins the backing plates in such a way that the curved arms are pointing upwards.  (It directls any gear oil that might be leaking down the backing plate.

The spring that goes around the brake drum, of course, is very difficult to install.  Art Gardner, a CLC member and an engineer, has designed and fabricated a fixture to facilitate this installation.  Contact him at agardner@gardnergroff.com for information.
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

Philippe M. Ruel

Thank you Jay  :)

Quote from: Jay Friedman on July 11, 2014, 07:13:24 AMThe spacer in picture 1 is slightly indented at one end.  You'll see that either the primary or secondary shoe is slightly indented (I forget which wheel and which shoe) so install accordingly.
Yes the spacer is indented. Unfortunately, none of the brake shoes I have is indented, all of them (whether front or rear, right or left, primary or secondary, old or recent) are desperately flat.

BUT... having a look at my old front brake shoes (which I replaced 15 years ago and suspect to be original to this low mileage car), two have a reinforcement, making them much thicker at this place, so that the indentation on the spacer makes sense (see picture).
I can't tell if these are primary or secondary, as all linings are of equal length. Anyway, I will put these indented spacers on front wheels, inside out so that the indentations don't interfere with flat shoes.


Quote from: Jay Friedman on July 11, 2014, 07:13:24 AMThe spring that goes around the brake drum, of course, is very difficult to install.  Art Gardner, a CLC member and an engineer, has designed and fabricated a fixture to facilitate this installation.  Contact him at agardner@gardnergroff.com for information.
I guess this device must be fairly bulky, therefore shipping it over the Pond would be insane. I sent him a PM to get ideas of how to fabricate one myself. Thanks for the info.
1952 60 Special in France.

Jay Friedman

Indented was the wrong word.  As you said, one brake shoe is thicker so, if I remember correctly, you install the spacer so that the indented end of it faces in toward the thinner shoe.

Again, if I remember correctly, Art Gardner's fixture for installing the spring around the brake drum is mostly made of wood so if you had a photo you could make it yourself.  He could then explain how to use it.  I think you need 2 people and, using it, it took the 2 of us only a short time to install a spring on one of my brake drums. 
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

Brad Ipsen CLC #737

Does anyone know where you can buy new springs that go around the drums.  Anyone try not putting them on and is there any actual noise as a result.
Brad Ipsen
1940 Cadillac 60S
1938 Cadillac 9039
1940 Cadillac 6267
1940 LaSalle 5227
1949 Cadillac 6237X
1940 Cadillac 60S Limo

ebuliavac

This is an interesting and timely thread for me.  I have a 1940 Series 62 that is missing strut rods and springs for both rear brakes, and it needs a parking brake lever for the left rear.  Does anyone know where I can find these parts?  Thanks, Ed Buliavac
1940 6227C
1996 Fleetwood Brougham

Jay Friedman

Try AllCads.com  Lauren Schweitzer is in charge.
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

ebuliavac

Thank you.  We're working on it.  It seems according to an interchange manual that it's 1940 only.  Don't know whether other GM brands from that year would work.  Maybe so, there is a lot out there for Chevrolet.  If it comes down to it, anyone know a machinist who could fabricate?  It's too bad these little parts are keeping me off the road, but that's how it goes sometimes.
1940 6227C
1996 Fleetwood Brougham

Philippe M. Ruel

Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on July 10, 2014, 02:18:11 AM
Have a look at your picture: you can see the mark from the bolt heads, so you have the answer! I suppose that the purpose from this little part is to prevent the road dirt to come into the brake assembly.
Just posting a picture to show what this part looks like once in place.
1952 60 Special in France.

Philippe M. Ruel

#12
Quote from: Jay Friedman on July 13, 2014, 04:09:40 PMif I remember correctly, Art Gardner's fixture for installing the spring around the brake drum is mostly made of wood so if you had a photo you could make it yourself.  He could then explain how to use it.  I think you need 2 people and, using it, it took the 2 of us only a short time to install a spring on one of my brake drums.
I sent a PM through the forum to Art, but no answer to date. So I made my own tool to install these springs.

It needs a 8"x8"beam off-cut (pic 1, the drum is still in its protective wrap after powder coating)

Place the drum on the beam section (pic 2), assemble using screw spikes (pic 3). I used 5, 5/16" screws and washers, but 3 would be enough. Draw the diagonals with a carpenter lead pencil so that it is roughly centered, and pre-drill holes (hence the wood shavings ;) ).

Protect the drum with duct tape (pic  4) before screwing (pic 5) 4 small boards (say, 3/4" x 3" in section) on 4 faces of the beam. Adjust in length so that they come flush with the final location of the spring (pic 6) and leave some play to adjust laterally.

Use long screws to fix the small boards in lateral position (pic 7) Screw tight, the duct tape is here to protect the coating.

Engage the spring (pic 8 ).
1952 60 Special in France.

Philippe M. Ruel

#13
When it comes to the point where the spring coils start to separate (pic 9) you may want to spray paint it (pic 10) so that paint may get into the coils.

During drying time, no specific instructions about what to do ;D

The process may be repeated, although the spring will go down more by translation than by rotation. The relatively high rubbing power of wood will prevent it from popping up to a certain extent.

When it is almost down (pic 11), il will nevertheless want to spring in your face. To prevent it, drill 1/8" holes and insert nails as required (pic 12).

At the end, the use of a non-violent tool like a screwdriver plastic handle may help (pic 13).

The first part is through (pic 14).
Done (pic 15).

The result (pic 16) : slight markings on coating. Between thumb and forefinger, a trace left by the violent end of the screwdriver - the one opposed to handle ::) .

1952 60 Special in France.

Jay Friedman

Magnifique, Phillippe!  Or, as we say in English, great job!  Those springs are very difficult to deal with.
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

Caddy Wizard

Philippe,


We did something quite similar to get the springs on 1949 brake drums several years ago.  Basically, the concept was to use wooden planks to expand the springs and allow them to be slipped over the drum.  Just like in your photos.


Sorry if you were unable to reach me about this...
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan (now under resto -- has been in paint shop since June 2022!)
1955 S62 Coupe (future show car? 2/3 done)
1958 Eldo Seville (2/3 done)

Philippe M. Ruel

Thanks for your comments :)

I had to modify the fixture to make it able to work on front drums - larger, and including bearings and wheel studs (pic 1).

A large hole for the bearing housing (pic 2), small holes for studs (pic 3), and finishing touches using sculptor's gouges and mallet (pic 4), long time I hadn't used them :) .

It works perfectly (pic 5)

Note 1 : this is a try on an old drum without bearings. The large hole has to be deep enough to provide room for bearing dust cover.

Note 2 : it may have been simpler to drill through a thick plank and screw it to the beam. I thought of it in midstream - plus, I was excited at the idea of working with my gouges again ;D .
1952 60 Special in France.

Philippe M. Ruel

#17
... and it works horizontally, too  8) , in case the drum is installed on the car - its removal (front) would have implied removing the outer bearing. Not a big deal, but would necessitate dust protection throughout.
1952 60 Special in France.