Researching VIN/Ownership History - CA

[Paul Phillips]

My 41 was sold via Don Lee Cadillac in Oakland (per GM Heritage shipping info) and I bought it from an owner in Sacramento a few years back.  I do have the CA title and black plates from that time.  I would like to know if it is possible and 'how-to' on researching the ownership history in CA.  The verbal info I got from the previous owner said it was always a CA car.

Thanks for any help on this!

Paul

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

CA plates from the 40's and 50's would have been orange with black lettering.
Greg Surfas

[R Schroeder]

Beg to differ Greg.
They did switch around a lot in that state.

Roy

[Paul Phillips]

The car definitely came to me with CA 41 black plates.

The real question is is there a way with CA DMV or some entity to find the ownership history of the car?  Folklore says there was a high profile original owner of the car.  That would be interesting in itself.  More interesting would be to see if any of the family is still around who remembers the car when new.  There were some interesting features/deletes in the build of the car as I received it that were not recorded in the documents from GM Heritage.  Example - the story went about the car being bought for the family matriarch to be driven around and she did not want a passenger sun visor, because it could block her view.  When I pulled down the headliner, it was obvious that no screws had ever been run into the 3 holes for that visor.

Since the car was delivered to Don Lee and there have been other stories about special deals due to the Harley Earl relationship, I suspect the same may have happened for this car.

Again - thanks for any help on this "how to"

Paul

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Paul,
I think we've had this discussion before. The Cal 41 plates were done as a YOM, year of manufacture, program, available here in Ca. Even if they happened to be the VERY  plates that were issued to the car in 41... they still would have to assigned via the YOM program. So... I hate to be blunt, but there is NO way that the DMV will help you. Also, even if they would help you, the records only go back approx. 10 years at maximum. Also, there's a privacy law that prohibits them from giving any information what so ever. Sorry for the bad news.
HTH, Bob

[Paul Phillips]

Bob
Good to hear from you again. I know we had started the conversation but was never clear before if there were any options to research. Guess this settles it - thanks for your help.

Paul

[txturbo]

Very difficult at the least. Most DMVs drop cars out of the system if they haven't been active in 10 years. So unless the car has been registered since it was new it's not likely you will have any luck. Once it drops out of the system it's history starts all over again when you add it back in as a new record and now with the new privacy laws it's even more difficult through the DMV.

[C.R. Patton II]

Hello Paul

Glad to read that you are tracing the history of your car.  This is difficile at best.  In the past I have had the good fortune to ask Matt Larson, Doug Houston, and Paul Ayres about any Cadillac or LaSalle in our club.  They have a rich history spanning many decades.  There is a slight chance that you can track your vehicle using old CLC International Directories by vehicle and/or owner.  If I can assist please let me know.

In addition it was an honor and privilege to work on the judging team with you at the Grand National in Lake George.

[Steve Passmore]

I knew you would crash and burn with this one Paul. Bob gave me the same good news when I inquired about my 37 convertible which Bob found in an orchard in the early 70s by the way. Mine was delivered to Don lee in Hollywood no less. What I wouldn't give to know a little history of the first owners but its not to be sadly.

[Cadillac Nut]

I have heard they can be traced through the registration.   A few years ago I bid on Ronald Reagan's '69 Fleetwood 75, the owner had proof through the registration (as well as other documents) that this was the car he used while CA governor.  He was able to obtain the registration through the DMV.  Perhaps it had been registered since new, I am not sure. 

Garrett

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

I have heard they can be traced through the registration.   A few years ago I bid on Ronald Reagan's '69 Fleetwood 75, the owner had proof through the registration (as well as other documents) that this was the car he used while CA governor.  He was able to obtain the registration through the DMV.  Perhaps it had been registered since new, I am not sure. 

Garrett

Garrett,
I noticed that your first statement was " I have heard...". I have over  45 years experience dealing with the Ca. DMV I researched dozens of "I have heard "stories. Do you know what the results were? Absolutely nothing! It seems you can never find the guy that actually did it. I try to help people with questions like Paul had. And... I give a straight answer, whether it's good news or not. I don't want to give false hopes to anyone. So... if you can trace your story & find someone who can actually look up these past owners, I'm sure that a lot of people would appreciate it.
As far as the Reagan car, or any other official car, it would only show as being owned by the state.
Bob

[Cadillac Nut]

Bob,
I was seriously considering that car, the seller assured me he had the registration and he got it from the CA DMV.  I saved his contact info, I will have to dig it out and ask him how he went about it.   Like you said it just showed state ownership but the fact that he obtained it from the DMV was what was surprising to me.   I would be thrilled if I could find out the original owners of two of my CA cars. 
Garrett

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Garrett,
Thanks for responding. Before I comment further, do you live in Ca. or elsewhere?
Bob

[62 driver]

Paul,
I think we've had this discussion before. The Cal 41 plates were done as a YOM, year of manufacture, program, available here in Ca. Even if they happened to be the VERY  plates that were issued to the car in 41... they still would have to assigned via the YOM program. So... I hate to be blunt, but there is NO way that the DMV will help you. Also, even if they would help you, the records only go back approx. 10 years at maximum. Also, there's a privacy law that prohibits them from giving any information what so ever. Sorry for the bad news.
HTH, Bob

Three years ago I had California DMV reissue (not YOM) the black plates that were on our 1961 Cadillac. The car was purchased and registered in California with black (1963-68) plates. The owner moved to Nevada and kept the original California 2 black plates and the original California registration. It then moved back to California and the owner had custom plates on the car when I received it.
I don't know how long the car was out of state but the California DMV said the plates were out of their system. I had to send it to Sacramento and it took 8 months to do it.  I'll try to find the DMV rules that cover this but you know a 1961 car is not covered under the YOM for Black plates. As far as finding the history of the car you might try finding some photos of the person to see if they are in or around the car.

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Dave,
Before I comment further, I have a question. Were those "custom" plates personalized? Did the seller retain them? They are ,in fact, his plates & he can transfer them to another car.
Advise.
Bob

[62 driver]

Bob, I have the personalized plates and I can put them on any car the DMV said. I have not tried. I am going to check my car file and see if I have a copy of the form #. I well get back to you.
Dave

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Dave,
I have first hand knowledge that you can do what you said on the black plates. You are very lucky.
What I said on the personalized plates is you need the previous owner to sign that form so you can transfer those plates into your name. I just gave that info as advice. If you've done that already, that's good.  I don't need the form # as I have no reason to use it.
However...I fail to see how this DMV plate  experience relates to Pauls quest. He is trying to find out who bought his car new in 1941.
Bob

[62 driver]

Bob, you are right I had the previous owner sign the custom plates over to me.  I am a slow reader. Truly I flunked out of English in the 8th grade so my spelling is way off as well.  I was just reading your responds "they still would have to assigned via the YOM program" and that is not a true statement as far as I know it. It took me a lot of reading to fine out if you can prove your car was registered and still had the CA plates the DMV would reissues them to the same car. This is the rule I found.  http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vehindustry/vin_memos/vin2009/09vin20.pdf. I had to take it to the DMV and they had to call for the steps.  No one at the local DMV had a clue. So my only point was that their is a way to reissue that 1941 plate beside the YOM program. And it has not much to do with the history of this car.
Dave