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what to buy??

Started by Dulcidog2, July 18, 2014, 08:30:47 PM

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Dulcidog2

Hi ,
I'm looking for a summer driver. 2 candidates .. 1) an 84 elder ado convertible decent driver shape no rust
2) 69 deville converable solid shape 1 hole in rocker.
In short neither a show car but both good Sunday drivers. The 69 is about 2 grand more
Question is ..is it worth it ?? Not looking for flip just would like to hold value.

Let the debate begin.....
Thanks Bill L
14869

The Tassie Devil(le)

I would be going for the '69, seeing as it is a factory convertible, and parts for it will be easily obtainable.

The reason I say this is that once you own either car, you WILL end up wanting to make it better, and don't forget the engine in the '84 wasn't Cadillacs' best design.

BUT, I would also be suspicious of the hole in the Rocker, as once rusting has shown up, it could be far worse than can be plainly seen.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

sding

Two great cars. we need to know the price of the cars. I have a 1985 Eldorado  FACTORY convertible and I LOVE IT!

TJ Hopland

2 grand more so are we talking about something like $3000 vs 5000?   If both are in you budget then $2000 buys a lot of parts.

The 79-85 E bodies are actually pretty decent cars.   I did not think much of them till I owned one. They are for the most part overlooked cars.  Drivetrain could have been better but most of the ones that survived must have been 'Wedensday' cars so they seem to be fairly reliable.  Buying a 69 that has not had recent work done could turn into a money pit fairly easily too. 

One thing I would look at is which one has had more work done and which one has been driven more recently.   If the current owner has been putting money into one of them and driving it I would lean more in that direction than one that has been doing some sitting.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Aaron Hudacky

I'm with Bruce; I'd go for the 69.  However, look at the frame and trunk floors very closely for rust.  The frame didn't drain well and cars in snowy regions can look fine overall but have a bad frame and trunk mounts.  If there's a hole in the rocker, there's probably more rust elsewhere.  I've had one 69 and one 70 convertible with solid rockers but frames that were basically unrepairable due to rust, and have seen many beautiful looking 67-70 closed rwd cars only to find rusted frame rails and trunk mounts. 

Still, the most severe rust scares me less than the 4100, and the 69 is faster, quieter and more durable overall. 
1970 Eldorado
1978 Coupe deVille
1979 Coupe deVille
2008 Subaru STI

TJ Hopland

The 79-85 E bodies have rust issues too.  Just like the earlier cars, they can look pretty good on the outside but have serious issues underneath.  The rear frame sections and body mounts seem to be common areas for issues.   That may have just been issue of having a car with frames, it does not seem like they ever really found a way to reduce that issue other than getting rid of frames all together.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

76eldo

#6
The hole in the rocker needs to be looked at to see what other areas are rusty.
If the paint, chrome, and interior are all comparable, everything working on both cars, I'd say go for the 69 if you don't care about gas mileage.

Without knowing how the 4100 was maintained or if it already has problems and a radiator full of sealer you can't be sure of the condition of the engine.

The 472 in the 69 however is one of the best Cadillac engines ever built.

The 69's and 70' DeVille convertible values are climbing but the 84-85 converts seem to always be about the same.  $5000 and under for junk, $10,000 for a beauty.

If you keep the 69 and improve it as you own it, I think it will hold value better that the 84-85.

It's also a completely different car. I have a 70 and it is a very nice car to drive.

Good Luck.
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#7
Neither.

Save up and buy quality for it will be rewarded in spades and have no regrets. 

Weak examples retain value very poorly WHILE going broke keeping them serviceable, nevermind cosmetics.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

sding

Quote from: 49er on July 19, 2014, 09:34:30 AM
     In truth, there were no FACTORY convertables in 84,85. They came off the assembly line as hardtops, EVERYONE them.
They were sent to authorized establishments like ASC to perform the authorized work. Then sold as 67s convertables. Yes, factory authorized, but NOT Factory built.
I see you have been misinformed this is common. The vin # on my 1985 Eldorado's FACTORY convertable identifies the car as a leaving
the factory as a convertable. The vin# is the only way to confirm FACTORY options

Coupe Deville

Hello. I can't speak for the 84 but everyone that has posted before me is giving you the right idea.
One hole in the rocker is ok but just make sure there isn't any more bad rust. I would give it a very good inspection underneath. Rust sometimes doesn't show it's self so easy. Just ask me about my 57. Good looking body on top, whole diffrent world underneath. As far as the engine and transmission go the 472 Is SUPER RELIABLE. Very smooth engine. If it has been maintained well you should have no problems. Not sure what year the plastic timing chain issue was but some people are luckier then others. The TH400 trans is extremely durable. Regular maintince will keep it going for a long time. I've never even had to touch mine. I do wish it had a overdrive on the highway though. Fuel economy isn't that bad depending on your driving habits and what you do. If you play around with the quadrajet you can actuly get decent milage. My 72 CDV gets better milage then my dads Chevrolet Tahoe. The 69 is also just a good looking car. Best of luck making your decision.

-Gavin
-Gavin Myers CLC Member #27431
"The 59' Cadillac says more about America than a whole trunk full of history books, It was the American Dream"

76eldo

#10
I own several 80-85 Convertibles.

The vin designates convertible and the ASC conversions with the factory convertible vin is a factory convertible. They are shown in owners and service manuals and recognized as factory convertibles.
They are better built, more uniform in fit and finish, and work better.

ASC modified the cars and removed the roof of Biarritz coupes. I don't know of they did some modification and fitted the convertible parts and the factory finished them or of ASC finished them and then the went to the dealers, but for many reasons they are Factory cars.

The Hess cars and the Florida cars are not.

I know, I've owned a bunch of them. The Hess and Eisenhardt cars, of which I have 3, while being nice cars have some production variances and more coach built items than the factory cars.

The ASC tops seem to work better and parts were sold for these cars at Cadillac dealers. With Hess cars, you were on your own. They were dealer authorized and custom ordered.

You have to buy a good one because a bad one will just be a nightmare.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

I suppose it's a matter of semantics whether the 84/85 EBZ convertible is "factory" in the sense the car had been built at a GM plant from beginning to end - which of course it had not.

As the car had been commissioned and manufactured under GM's direct involvement and supervision and marketed as a full fledged GM product, they are generally recognized as a "factory" convertible despite not being the case in the literal sense of the word.

A parallel might also be drawn with bodies produced in the Fleetwood plant before its acquisition by Cadillac - which - to my knowledge - are also generally considered "factory" cars - if only in name.

Eric
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

76eldo

Eric

The difference is that of the few body builders that built post 76 convertibles, the only cars that have a Cadillac VIN prefix that identifies them as a convertible are the ones modified by ASC.

The parts were in inventoried by Cadillac Dealers, and they were shown in literature, in the shop manuals as well.

Hess built some great cars like the LeCabriolet and the Eldorado's but these are clearly modified cars and were cut from completed cars.  They were always repainted from the doors back and are not as uniform as the ASC cars in fit or finish.

I have 3 of these cars right now and also an 85 ASC Biarritz and have owned many others.

The thread took a left turn but I am just saying the 84-85 Biarritz convertible is a Factory car.
No different from the 76-78 Eldorado Biarritz coupe modified by ASC.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Martin Michaels

Marty  CLC#26833
1947 6269  Cavern Green
1980 CDV D Elegance  White

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Quote from: 76eldo on July 20, 2014, 10:43:56 AM
Eric

The difference is that of the few body builders that built post 76 convertibles, the only cars that have a Cadillac VIN prefix that identifies them as a convertible are the ones modified by ASC.

The parts were in inventoried by Cadillac Dealers, and they were shown in literature, in the shop manuals as well.

Hess built some great cars like the LeCabriolet and the Eldorado's but these are clearly modified cars and were cut from completed cars.  They were always repainted from the doors back and are not as uniform as the ASC cars in fit or finish.

I have 3 of these cars right now and also an 85 ASC Biarritz and have owned many others.

The thread took a left turn but I am just saying the 84-85 Biarritz convertible is a Factory car.
No different from the 76-78 Eldorado Biarritz coupe modified by ASC.

Brian

Quote from: ericdev on July 20, 2014, 10:11:01 AM
I suppose it's a matter of semantics whether the 84/85 EBZ convertible is "factory" in the sense the car had been built at a GM plant from beginning to end - which of course it had not.

As the car had been commissioned and manufactured under GM's direct involvement and supervision and marketed as a full fledged GM product, they are generally recognized as a "factory" convertible despite not being the case in the literal sense of the word.

A parallel might also be drawn with bodies produced in the Fleetwood plant before its acquisition by Cadillac - which - to my knowledge - are also generally considered "factory" cars - if only in name.

Eric

I think we are substantially in agreement; Art had merely been pointing out that a portion of the manufacturing process had not taken place at a GM facility.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

sding

 Thanks Brian for clearing this up. the vin# identifies a factory convertible. Now back to the point of the thread, can we get a price on the cars?

sding

Quote from: 49er on July 19, 2014, 09:34:30 AM
     In truth, there were no FACTORY convertables in 84,85. They came off the assembly line as hardtops, EVERYONE them.
They were sent to authorized establishments like ASC to perform the authorized work. Then sold as 67s convertables. Yes, factory authorized, but NOT Factory built.
OK 1985 Eldorado  factory convertable  VIN# (67) YES! "not factory built" it seems we agree :)
I do apologies  for leading  this thread off topic

sding

Thank you Mr Archambeault. I do like owning the last factory Eldorado convertable made by Cadillac.

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Phew! I'm glad we cleared that up.

Guests on the forum must think we are nuts.  ;D

To the OP: I wish you luck in your search for your Cadillac treasure. As had been mentioned, HT 4100 is a perennial weak point and only the very finest examples should be considered. All is relative to price of course, and I for one would prefer buying a pristine 84/85 that is priced right over a derelict 69/70 that is not, any time, any day of the week.

The importance of condition when considering a latish-model Cadillac cannot be overemphasized. This is especially true of cars of 1970 and newer because the cost to restore will be utterly out of proportion to final value and you will be "upside down" in no time - while incurring endless amounts of turmoil - both physically and emotionally.

Feel free to run any prospects past the forum for scrutiny, critique and commentary. We're here to help.

-Eric 
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

corey raub

If you don't consider the 84 and 85 Eldorado convertibles as factory built, I'm curious how you would characterize the Allantes built from 1987-2003.  Oh, and how do you see the Cadillacs of the 70's that were sent to ASC to have sunroofs installed?  Are these cars not considered factory built simply because they had a sunroof installed by an outside firm.  Sometimes in our quest to let others know how much we know, we end up showing others how much we do not know.  Please stop the bullying, and I ask the administrators to step in when it occurs on this forum.  Thank you.