Caveat Emptor on using Paypal for International Parts Purchases

[Joe V]

I was just bitten with this so I thought I would share. 

Purchased and paid through Paypal for a not so cheap part from a Cadillac parts supplier North of the Boarder only to find it was mislabeled.  Returned it and instead of the seller initiating a Return transaction in Paypal as is supposed to be done, the refund was sent as a Payment.  This resulted in fees and currency conversion costs being applied to the purchaser, me, instead of the full back-out of the transaction that occurs when a refund for return is issued.  The end result, less than full refund received for a mislabeled product.

Lesson learned, no more international part purchases for me. 

[Steve Passmore]

Always the problem when you have a financial institution sending money around the world for you, someone has to pay, and twice if the money is sent back again. Take pity on enthusiasts here in Europe, everything we need has to come from your country. I dare not count the fees and currency exchange rates I have paid out in the last 35 years, I could buy another car with it but I still think its worth it rather than the old method of having to go to my bank, pay for an international money order then send it to a seller in the US who invariably sells the item before he gets it, if the seller sends the order back I have the charges all over again to convert to sterling.  Another problem, not every seller accepts credit cards.

[Joe V]

I can certainly understand how the costs would add up when purchasing internationally is the only option.  I don't mind paying my fair share, and it looks like I should view in the bigger sense since I have options. 

I guess in the end we all vote on who the best part suppliers are with our pocketbooks and rewards of repeated business.

[Jason Edge]

I've been selling parts around the world 15+ years and find PayPal very fair and convenient for both buyer and seller.  I deal with a lot of customers abroad and know how getting payment to sellers in the USA can be a pain. 

As a seller, PayPal allows me to immediately receive payment, securely at a modest fee. If I have to refund something, it also refunds the fees I have to pay. As far as buyer protection, you need to find someone honest to deal with regardless. There is only so far a company such as PayPal can go to protect you. In this case the seller should have refunded thru PayPal. That way, if a full refund was provided all fees would have been removed. If you do a partial refund, it in turn calculates and provides the correct % refund of the fees.

As far as currency, the seller and buyer need to predetermine the currency the payment will be sent. I always state up front that any international sell has to be paid in US Dollars. It is easy to select the different currency when making a payment with PayPal as I am sure many of you abroad are aware. I had someone recently forget and make a Payment in Canadian Dollars which worked to their favor by enough that I immediately did a full refund and requested (again) the payment in US Dollars.  All fees for my accepting that transaction were returned and the buyer received a full refund, and later sent the correct amount in US Dollars.

I have also had it to work the other way and someone pay in their currency that worked out to my favor once I converted the currency to US Dollars and I refunded the difference, which again reduced the fees by the % refunded.

Regardless if you go to your bank and exchange currency, go get an international money order in another countries currency, or wire money into a different currency, there are fees involved and I have found PayPal to be the most convenient tool around to allow me to sell parts to contacts around the world, and have a part in the mail the next day just as if they lived here in the USA.  As a seller I prefer to incur the modest fee to accept payments (in the US or abroad), as I don't have to worry about bounced checks, the delay in receiving money, or any of the currency exchange hassles.
Still, you need to buy from someone you can trust.  The person that sent a "Payment" for the refund either a) doesn't know how to use PayPal to refund money and b) actually hurt themselves as they could have had part of the fees they initially incurred removed, and perhaps have now lost a future customer.

[Jim Stamper]

     PayPal was the missing link in this hobby, I think it is great for the reasons stated above.

                                         Jim Stamper, CLC#13470

[Glen]

I use PayPal also and I agree with all that Jason said.  It looks to me like Joe’s seller is not aware of all the features of PayPal.  I’m not sure what can be done at this point but Joe should let the seller know what happened and that it could have been avoided. 

[Dan LeBlanc]

I placed an order online with a big box hardware store in the US for an item as I was going to be travelling south of the border the next day, so I just wanted to do an in-store pickup.  Paid for the item and went to pick it up.  When I got to the store, I found it wouldn't meet my needs, so they gave me a refund.  I had paid via credit card.  The exchange rate was different that day, so it cost me $3 or $4.  I chalked it up to doing business across the border and a cost associated with doing so.

It does happen.  Doesn't mean it's a reason to not do business internationally.

Here in Canada, mostly anything I buy in the way of car parts comes from the US.  It is so much cheaper, and being 20 minutes from Maine, it saves me a ton of money as I get free shipping in the US on most of what I buy and have an address where I have stuff shipped to in Maine.

I have saved more money just doing business that way than what it has cost me in exchange rate differences if, in the rare event, I have ever had to send stuff back.

[John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.]

Folks,

My opinion. If it is a large purchase I pay via PayPal but use my Credit Card. If I get no response or such then I call the credit card company and pull the payment back till the dispute is settled. Generally if the guy is a goof ball I get the money back.

My opinion from some experience. Generally I have few problems with buying stuff if you check the seller out prior to bidding.

The Johnny

[cadillacmike68]

Glad you guys like PayPal, but if you ever have an issue good luck.

I try to avoid it like the plague. See what happens when you need some help with a bad purchase.

In almost 10 years, I Never had an issue that was not eventually resolved. I've bought many items that turned out to be junk, misleading or outright counterfeit (do NOT try to buy a legit copy of windows 7 on ebay, there is no such thing), but I have always managed to get resolution as a buyer. As a seller I have done far fewer transactions, but these are the guidelines that I use.

If buying:

Always, ALWAYS, ALWAYS used a credit card to fund / pay. NEVER use your bank account. And don't bother with the paypal credit card either.  Paypal tries to make this a PITA, because after so many purchases, they insist that you have a bank account tied to them, (and you need one if you are selling). And they ALWAYS default your purchases to use this bank account to pay. Just Don't do it. Always change the funding to your credit card.

If something isn't right use the ebay message system (if it's an ebay item, or write directly to their email explaining what's wrong.

Tell the seller what you want done to resolve the issue. Try to be reasonable.

If they do not respond or are not willing to comply, open an ebay case if appropriate AND notify your credit card issuing bank to dispute the charge. That always gets their attention.

Return the item insured and tracked if that needs to be done. A disputed credit charge will usually require you to show proof of returning the item.

Always be polite, professional and honest.

As a seller:

Ship ONLY to confirmed addresses.

Check the buyer feedback, VERY carefully. There some rotten people out there, but the feedback will show them out, you have to look at what they received and what they left for others.

Insure the package if it's over your pain threshold. I insure anything going out if its over $50, and now priority mail includes $50 in their price, so everything I send out goes insured. I have never had a problem with an insured package getting lost. I received something (when I was in the desert) in 2012, that looked like it was dragged behind the truck for the entire 7,000 miles, but inside, the item (a computer card) was ok.

If you have an international buyer, make sure they know it is going international priority mail insured and signed for. If they don't like this, don't sell them the item. I sold a Cruise Control control dial to someone in Moscow. It was only a $50 item, but I told him it would be $50 plus insured international mail. He then told me he had a friend in NYC who I could send it to. I spoke with the friend and gave him two options, signed, insured postage plus paypal fees (about $19 to NYC) or priority mail for $6 (remember its tracked and insured for $50), but If he wanted the latter rate, I told him he would have to send the $56 as a paypal gift. He agreed, I received the entire $56 (no fees to me) and I sent the dial. I even emailed him when I saw the USPS delivery notice on the tracking.

[Joe V]

From what I read, Paypal's policy is that refunds are to be the full amount and in the original currency that funded the purchase.  Yet they let the seller refund through the "send payment" function which reduced the amount and had to be converted from Canadian to US dollars causing further reduction.  I assumed the seller just didn't know how to properly return and I could not get the nuance of how Paypal refunds work as there were english/french language and attitude barriers.  Regardless of any language issues, a seller should know how to use their payment process of choice and the language of refunding the full amount on an agreed to return should be consistent in all businesses in the western world.

My real beef is with Paypal that allowed the refund to take place in opposition to their apparent policy.   

So I'll chalk it up to the cost of learning, and buy my parts elsewhere.  But I sure could think of a 1000 different ways to give money away that would have been better. 

[cadillacmike68]

Joe, It sure appears that the seller did not know what he was doing. 

What was it that you had to source in Canada? That's very unusual for a vintage Cadillac.

[Joe V]

It was a show quality rebuilt carb.  I really didn't have to source to Canada but I was having problems with a suspect carb with many issues (warped sections, etc) and I didn't want to fiddle with rebuilding or use it as a base for a professional rebuild.  Found a number of rebuild options at the time but they were pretty pricey so it was the best option for an excellent 722s.  However, after receiving I figured out it wasn't a 722s. 

If I had been more aware (I have only had my 49 for a short time) I would have know it wasn't the correct year carb from the pictures.  I am now well aware of what a 722s is after heading down the paths of knowledge building and rebuilding for less money and frustration.  Not to mention some excellent help from forum members.

[cadillacmike68]

OK, I can see where this could have and did go wrong. I guess we learn. I've made many ill advised (in hindsight) purchases for my 68, and that's a lot easier to find stuff for...