Cadillac ELR

[waterzap]

Anybody have an ELR or test driven one? I test drove the Volt, and am buying one. Just want to know what people think of the ELR. As opposed to what people think, the ELR is not just  a Volt with a nicer interior. Its actually a bit longer and wider than the Volt. It does use the same Voltec system, but thats about it. Same drivetrain, different everything else.

I kind of think the Voltec sytem is well suited to a car like a Cadillac. Its dead quiet. No noise except a bit of wind and tire noise (when running in electric). Also the fact that you rarely have to visit a gas station to me is a luxury.  I know they are expensive, but all new technology is. It’s a pity they aren’t selling better

[Big Apple Caddy]

The ELR would be selling better if they priced it better.  Yes, it’s a Cadillac but the premium over the Volt is excessive IMO.  The base price of the ELR is over $40K higher than the Volt and even a fully loaded Volt is still almost $35K less than a base priced ELR.

[waterzap]

They are giving rebates on the ELR. I think if you negotiate hard, you can get a good deal. Also. There are still 2012 adn 2013 NEW, UNREGISTERED volts out there. So they are eligible for the $7,500 credit. I am sure in a few years you will see 3 or 4 year old ELR's on the lots. Except if gasoline goes to $5 or higher. Then they will all be bought very suddenly

[waterzap]

Well, there are actually a couple of reasons why you would look into the ELR. And cost savings is only part of it.

-   The car is very quiet. Electric cars are inherently very quiet. Luxyury car makers have forever tried to make their cars quiet, and they charge more for it. The first time I drove my Volt with the sales woman, she said it was too strange, and she quickly turned on the radio. She did not like the quiet.
-   The driving experience is better than with a gasoline car. It really is. The car mooves quietly and smootly. This is the driving experience Cadillac has always striven for. Smooth, seamless quiet acceleration. You can get close to it with a big V8, or you can nail it with an electric. An electric car isnt just a cheaper form of transport. It really is better for every day driving. When you stop, there is no noise. When you move, all you hear is the tires and a bit of wind. That’s it.
-   Of course it is cheaper. Filling up your car to go 40 miles (or less, depending on the temp) is about a dollar. The car has 16kwh batteries. At off peak electricity ($0.06 /kwh), that would be $0.96.
-   Its convenient. Does not matter what you drive, a $5,000 jalopy, or a $200,000 Bentley. You have to stop at a gas station. Some gas stations are nice, some are not. Nevertheless, its not the kind of place most people enjoy hanging around at. With the ELR, you will still need to stop for gasoline, but the times might be far and few. If you mainly run electric, the car will still force you to burn off gasoline. So you might have to fill up once a year or so.
-   Its cool. I love cars. I have big cars with big engines that suck gasoline. But the internal combustion engine is old tech. This is new tech. My 67 Toronado was the height of technology in the 60’s. The ELR is the height of automotive technology today. This is the future. Mass market, sucecessful FWD came out in 66 with the Toronado. Of course there were other manufacturers that had it before. But still, it wasn’t widely adopted. Not till the 80’s did FWD really take off. The 2014 ELR plug in hybrid or fully electric is the future. But it could take another 15 years before things really take off. Do we really want to keep using 80’s technolgy? Right or wrong, I see the cars in distinct buckets. Carb, Fuel injected. And now hybrid electric. Cars have pretty much stayed the same since the 80s when EFI came into the scene. Do you really want your car companies to just stay with old technology?
-   Its an American designed, American made car. Is that a bad thing? I think not. Of course some of the components come from other countries. But there are many people currently able to feed their families because they are working on this technology.
-   Electric is more efficient. If it were not, how could you be paying $1 to drive 40 miles? You can actually use the same oil, and the generators in the power stations will be more efficient than the engine in your car. Scaling these things up, they become more efficeint.
-   Then finally. Does not matter your political leanings There are very, very bad people out there who gets most, if not all of their money from oil. If you pull the carpet from under them and stop buying their oil, what will they do? Electricity usually doesn’t go very far. You are actually filling your vehicle with local energy. Be that solar, coal, or whatever.

I have a Volt, and I love it. Definitely going to test drive the ELR. I wish I could afford one now. If I could, would have bought it.

[waterzap]

Well, the price you see, is not nearly the price you pay. You can get a brand new Volt for just over $20k. No kidding. That’s the price of any small car. The ELR is still expensive. Give it time. As the cars pile up on the dealer lots, you will be surprised of the deals you can get.

[waterzap]

You have to take the money off your taxes. As long as it is new, you can get the tax rebate.

You don’t really get money from the government. You get YOUR money back. So if you owe more than $7,500 in taxes, you will get $7,500 back. If you only owe $5,000, you will get $5,000 back.

There are a couple of Volts I have seen for around $27,900. Left over 2013 models. Minus the Federal rebate, that’s $20,400. Some states also give you something, so that in the end your cost could be well below $20,000. So you have to carry that $7,500 till you do your taxes.
I agree, $40,000 is a lot for this car. At $20,000 however the dynamics change.

[waterzap]

That’s correct. Now the other thing, many states also give you credits. West Virginia gives $7,500. It seems to be the highest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_incentives_for_plug-in_electric_vehicles

Just looking at Autotrader, right now you can pick up a new ELR for $55,000 without negotiations. If you live in WV and depending on your tax situation, you can end up paying $40,000.
Now, that’s not Kia money. But its not $80,000

The cheapest CTS I could find was around $34k just scanning the ads. Is the ELR a replacement for the CTS? Maybe not. But you might save $1,500 in gas per year, so the numbers dont stack up all that badly against the ELR if you buy smart and you like the new technology.

[Glen]

One thing most people miss in the discussion about electric cars is what they will bring about in the future.  Right now the federal and state governments get their highway maintenance money from taxes on the gasoline the vehicles use.  It is a pretty fair system as the big heavy trucks that create the most wear and tear on our roads also pay the most fuel taxes.  Electric cars are now in the honeymoon phase as they do not pay any (or very little) fuel taxes, and around here they get free electricity from shopping centers, free parking at city parking meters and many more.  But what happens when electric cars are the norm?  The governments will need to find a new way to raise the highway maintenance money.  Any guess as to what that will be?         

My guess is toll roads.  All cars will have the equivalent of the easy pass transponder on their cars be they electric or gas powered, and you will pay a monthly bill for the miles you drive and the rate will depend on the weight of the vehicle and the type of service; i.e. personal or commercial.  Toll roads also allow variable rates depending on when and where you drive.  For example if you drive the main roads during the rush hour you pay more.  Discounts if you use the car pool lane (but high fines if you don’t have the required number of people in the car).  And I am sure the pols will find more ways to charge us.   

[J. Skelly]

Not to rain on the electric car parade, but what about the replacement cost for the batteries as the car gets older?  You have to figure that into the total operating cost of the vehicle - unless you plan to lease it for only a few years or sell it before it becomes a financial liability.  Also, it will take more time to get the infrastructure in place to enable a person to charge their vehicle almost anywhere.

[waterzap]

No one has had to replace batteries in the Voltec system yet I believe.  They have had to with the Nissan Leaf. But the ELR battery is liquid cooled,  while the leaf is air cooled. I have read you can buy the battery for around $3000 at the moment. Apparently there is a part number for it. So yes,  it will have to be replaced. When?  No one knows. There are cars out there with many thousands of miles and the batteries are still good in the Volt. The car has 16kwh batteries,  but only uses 10kwh. So in this case GM went the conservative route. My guess is as the battery ages they might be able to unlock the other part,  but I cannot find where they have had to do it yet.

[57eldoking]

Also don't forget the constant development both in production and the battery technology itself. This will undoubtedly dramatically lower battery replacement cost in the future. Just look at what happened in the flat panel TV market, 13 years ago a 40" flat panel was 10 grand, today a similar sized flat screen with far better technology can be had for around $1000.

[waterzap]

Well,  in 10 to 15 years your IC  engine might only have 20 to 30k miles on it if you drive mostly electric.  You might then be able to get a battery for half the price that can go twice as far.  All I can say is just don't do it.  If someone offers you a ride in an electric car,  just politely say no.  Don't ride in one.  Don't borrow one.  Just say no.  If you do,  you won't look at regular cars the same way.  It's pretty universal.  Once you get used to electric there is no going back.  Of course I still like my  in V8s for weekend fun.  But that's about it.  The smooth silent power is just addictive.  You have been warned.

[David King (kz78hy)]

I have almost 50k miles on my 2012 Volt.  Best car I've ever owned.

David

[waterzap]

It just is that good.  Look on YouTube for the video 'Is the Cadillac ELR worth it'
Matt explains how refined and good the Volt is.  I also have a Volt,  and it's a great car.  The only car I would take over the Volt is the ELR.

[Glen]

I just received the latest issue of Auto Restorer today and they have an article on electric cars of the early 1900s.  The article says the electric cars were very popular until Cadillac invented the self starter.  Hand cranking the engine was a lot of work and could be dangerous. 

I have no doubt the electric car will become more and more popular as they make improvements on these cars. 

[Whit Otis, 1188]

Just a quick point on electric cars.....  well electric anything.... while battery technology has improved "somewhat" the biggest improvements have been in computing devices increased efficiency.  We get much longer laptop, cellphone, tablet usage due more to the chips abiity to efficiently use electricity than to improvements in battery technology.

Whit Otis

[35-709]

   The sun set on those things.

[INTMD8]

I have almost 50k miles on my 2012 Volt.  Best car I've ever owned.

David

David, you have two Eldorado Broughams. I refuse to believe the volt is better.