37-6519 SPECIAL ORDER??

[JOHN D. CHRISTOFFERSON]

I HAVE A 1937 MODEL 6519.  THE IDENTIFICATION PLATE ON THE FIREWALL (SEE ATTACHED PHOTO) DOES NOT SHOW A TRIM NUMBER BUT IT SHOWS A "SO 1156" FOR THE PAINT NUMBER.  THE "SO" SHOULD INDICATE A "SPECIAL ORDER" CAR.  THE CAR IS A 6 WHEEL CAR AS THE "6W" INDICATES IN THE LOWER RIGHT CORNER OF THE PLATE.  FIRST QUESTION: DOES THE "SO 1156" ACTUALLY BELONG ON THE TRIM NO. LINE OR IS IN THE CORRECT PLACE?   SECOND QUESTION: WHAT DOES THE "1156" INDICATE?  THIRD QUESTION: WHAT DOES THE "1591" SHOWN ON THE BODY NUMBER INDICATE?  I HAVE A MASTER PARTS BOOK, BUT HAVE NOT FOUND ANSWERS TO THESE QUESTIONS.  CAN ANYONE PLEASE GIVE ME A HAND?  THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR ANY HELP YOU MAY BE ABLE TO RENDER.  JOHN D. CHRISTOFFERSON CLC 26913

[Steve Passmore]

Body number is its number down the body production line.  I would guess a build sheet from 'Allied Vaughn' would be your answer to the SO paint coulor.

[JOHN D. CHRISTOFFERSON]

Thanks Steve.  I was going to try to get the build / order sheets, however to do so the engine serial number is needed.  I know that I have a 1938 engine in the car, not the original 1937.  Having said that, I will check the VIN number on the title document.  Perhaps it would show the original engine number.   Do you know if the term "SO" was used for a special  order "paint"?   If it was, then perhaps the plate is stamped correctly. Do you have any idea where I can identify the code numbers used after the "SO"?  Thanks  john d. christofferson

[harry s]

John, I have a 1937 75 Series with a SO data plate. I was able to obtain the build sheet and the number following the SO was the what appeared to be a sequence number on the order form. The build sheet I received had the paint and trim numbers along with the descriptions. It also showed a change order indicating black wheels, stripe obmitted along with the addition of Firestone WWs. A lot of intereseting stuff. Since you know your engine has been changed I would as you have said check your registration number and then verifiy it with the chassis number which should be just behind or near the steering box. Good Luck,    Harry

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

John,
I'd like to add some comments. Usually the SO #'s are stamped between the trim & paint lines. Yours is stamped lower. That does not indicate a SO paint. The SO # eliminates both codes regardless which was SO'd The only true way to tell what the SO was is to get a build sheet. Also... I've never seen the 6W stamped like that. It will be interesting to see what the build sheet shows.
Re the correct VIN for the car. The frame # on 37 & earlier cars is abbreviated. Steve Passmore can help you decode it BEFORE you pay the $50.
HTH, Bob

[JOHN D. CHRISTOFFERSON]

As a follow up, I note that the VIN on my title documents matched the engine serial number of 8294105.  That number tells me my engine is a 1939 out of a 39-61 vehicle.  On the frame, on the driver's side I find the following number stamped "7B1635".  What the heck is this?  Does anyone know of a cross reference index? 

On a second matter; I called a major supplier of upholstery kits and was told that they did not have a pattern for a 1937 model 6519.  The model 65 was a stretched model that combined elements of the models 60 and 70, or so I have been told.  Does anyone know if the kit for a model 60 or the model 70 would fit the 65?

Thanks,  John Christofferson

[Steve Passmore]

John. your chassis number '7B1635' is nearly the same as the original engine number in 37. Cadillac supplemented the second and third numbers with a B for some unknown reason,  so, engine numbers started at 7030001 for 1937 65 series and ended in 7032401 producing 2400 models, yours was number 1635 down the line and the second and third numbers would not have changed because they didn't go over the 3000 mark making your original engine number 7031635.

[harry s]

Steve, Thanks for the explaination. I never would have figured that out. Mine '37 is a 75 Series and the frame number is 3BXXXX with those last four matching the engine number.    Harry

[Steve Passmore]

Same with your Harry, 75 series started at 3130001 and ended with 3134232 (but you probably know that already)
Change the 'B' for 13 and you have your engine number.

[tozerco]

Just to round out this discussion, the alphabetical inclusion in the chassis number is a reference to the year number for the engine. "A" was 1936, "B" was 1937, "C" was 1938, "D" was 1939 etc. etc. until at least (haven't been able to trace anything past "G" because of the war) "G" in 1942. Military engines in 1941, for example, are *F**** and in 1942 *G****.

[Steve Passmore]

Thats where things get a little strange John, My 1936 70 series has the 'A' just as you say, I had a 37 V12 a few years back that had the 'B' but my 37 convertible, my 38 coupe, 40 and 41 coupe all have engine matching chassis numbers as does two 41 sedans I have here!!! These are all 60, 61 and 62 series so whether that makes any difference I don't know?
I have a 39 which I havn't collected yet, it will be interesting to see whats on there as it was RHD export model.

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

Just to round out this discussion, the alphabetical inclusion in the chassis number is a reference to the year number for the engine. "A" was 1936, "B" was 1937, "C" was 1938, "D" was 1939 etc. etc. until at least (haven't been able to trace anything past "G" because of the war) "G" in 1942. Military engines in 1941, for example, are *F**** and in 1942 *G****.

John,
It sounds like you are mixing engine codes in your theory. If Steve had a B in his 37 V12, that motor would not be the same engine code as a V8. Cadillac knew the engine code on the original motor & if it got replaced, the engine code stamped on the frame was no longer relevant.
Steve,
Thankfully...37 was the LAST year for the abbreviated frame numbers!
Bob

[JOHN D. CHRISTOFFERSON]

Thanks to everyone that weighed in on this topic.  I've printed it out and put it into my binder, lest I forget.  You guys are great.

Now on to my next question.  Is the Model 65 interior matched by the model 60, or the 70, or the 75? Perhaps, half and half.   Someone told me that the 65 was simply a model 60 stretched out to provide a bigger rear passenger compartment.  I would like to order an upholstery kit.  However L/B only has a pattern for a model 60.  Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks guys,   John Christofferson

[Classic]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.  The 1937 65 series was a Fisher body with a Fleetwood interior.  The 1937 70 series was a Fleetwood body with a Fleetwood interior.  I believe they have essentially the same body with minor exterior trim changes.  They are the same wheelbase.  Therefore, I believe a 70 series interior would work in a 65 series.  Again, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

John,
Did you order the build sheet from Allied Vaughn??
Bob

[Steve Passmore]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.  The 1937 65 series was a Fisher body with a Fleetwood interior.  The 1937 70 series was a Fleetwood body with a Fleetwood interior.  I believe they have essentially the same body with minor exterior trim changes.  They are the same wheelbase.  Therefore, I believe a 70 series interior would work in a 65 series.  Again, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

As the Fisher body is all steel and the Fleetwood is hand built and still uses wood I can't see a 70 series trim fitting a 65 series and as the body is longer than the 60 I don't see that fitting either, sure you might be able to use some of the stuff but what happens when the door panels don't fit after you have paid for a kit?