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Preparing for winter. Radiator flush?

Started by Bill Caddyshack, November 16, 2014, 06:45:22 AM

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Bill Caddyshack

Getting ready for Winter and this seems a good time to flush and replace coolant. I have seen kits that "tee" into a heather hose and supposedly backflush the system. Some people remove the thermostat (temporarily) so there is better flow.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/peak-radiator-flush-and-fill-kit-pkf0aa/7690003-P?searchTerm=radiator+flush

I have several new-to-me 1950s Cadillacs. One, I know was stored for about ten years before I got it.

There are also chemical flushes like
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/peak-radiator-super-cleaner-and-flush-32-fl.-oz.-pkf0ae/7690005-P?searchTerm=radiator+flush

With this chemical, they suggest you put it in and drive around for a week or so and let it work I live in Atlanta, and it is not yet freezing, also I park inside at night and though the space is unheated, it never freezes. So I could use it.


I am not suggesting either of these, only using them as examples.

What do you suggest? And do you mix coolant with distilled water?

76eldo

Personally I'd stay away from the chemicals.
If the cars are not running hot you probably don't have too much junk in the system.
Can't go wrong with annual or bi-annual coolant flushing.

We all used to do the t fitting  in the heater hose back in the day so its still a good way to flush the system. I used to hook a hose up to a hot water tap on my
laundry sink to flush with hot water.

Tough to be enviornmentally friendly with this method though.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Jon S

#2
There is an expression - if it ain't broke; don't fix it!  Back in the 1950's Cadillac advised an annual flush - you ran water with Dupont's Water Pump Lubricant and Anti Rust in the summer and Antifreeze in the winter.  By the 1960's Cadillac's advice was to run antifreeze year round with an annual or semi-annual change.

I have to tell you, every time my dad changed the antifreeze, something would need to be replaced - most often the thermostat shortly thereafter.  In the late 1960's Sears introduced a blue colored antifreeze that was much thinner than the Prestone, Xerox types at the time and also purchased a 5 ball antifreeze tester.  I didn't change that 1962 antifreeze until 2001 when as preventative maintenance I replaced the water pump.  I have to tell you that antifreeze was still the same blue color as when it went in and still read 5 balls on the tester.  We used distilled water back then with the antifreeze to minimize any chemical buildup (and still do).

I bought Peak's Lifetime antifreeze and have not changed it since.  The car runs at 1/4 on the temperature gauge on the hottest of days and the ball checker (still have it) shows 5 balls.  I have not had to touch the cooling system in 12 years, and other that an annual ball testing hope not to.

Just my 2 cents.

Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

TJ Hopland

Back in the days when it was considered fine to let it just gush out on the ground the T thing worked well.    Some cities do allow you to dump it down the drain.  I think it depends on the type of treatment system they use.  Some systems don't have a problem with it and break it down easily but other types of treatment systems it screws up.  You don't want to put it in a septic system because it screws up the natural action of your system and goes into the ground without being properly broke down.   If you can put it down the drain a home flush may still be possible but remember you are going to end up running 2 or 3 time the volume of the system through so you will need that many buckets or need to be located that close to a drain.   Back in the 90's when it became 'bad' to dump it on the ground I remember someone like Prestone sold a recycle kit that had a big bag sort of container that was supposed to expand out and hold several gallons that you could then take to your local hazardous waste center.   I bought one and tried it but ended up damaging the 'bag' trying to load it to transport it so it still ended up on the ground.   Guessing I was not the only one that had that issue because I don't remember them being available very long. 

Because of all the above issues what I do now is take it to a local shop and have them do it.   I usually tell them not to use any flush chemical.   Its usually included in the price and they won't discount it but are usually happy to not use it. 

When I have a system fail and have to refill it I buy the pre mix stuff.    Its not really that much more money especially if you add in the cost of buying distilled water and the hassle of having to mix it.   
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

76eldo

Old coolant rots your radiator and heater core.
Every two years it should be changed.

If you drain the old stuff out and capture it, THEN fill with water and do the flush you are not really polluting anything.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Bill Caddyshack

So far it looks like a good idea to

1. Drain the system into some kind of container

2. Flush the system with running water. Maybe a garden hose stuck in the radiator opening with the petcock open and draining on the ground or in a drain. Balance the water in to the water out until it runs clear.

3. Avoid chemicals.

No-one mentioned it, but have the heater valve open so the water flows through the heater core(?)

76eldo

Yes, heater on full blast.

If you don't mind the t fitting in the heater hose that's not bad either.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Walter Youshock

And open the drains on the cylinder blocks.  You'd be surprised how much junk collects in the block.
CLC #11959 (Life)
1957 Coupe deVille
1991 Brougham

TJ Hopland

Opening the block drains would then in theory get a majority of the 'toxic' stuff out so you could do a garden hose flush. 

The times I have opened block drains I have had to use compressed air and a chunk of welding wire to get any liquid out.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Bill Caddyshack

Quote from: Walter Youshock on November 16, 2014, 12:07:57 PM
And open the drains on the cylinder blocks.  You'd be surprised how much junk collects in the block.

Where are the block drains? Even Google doesn't know.  :-\

Walter Youshock

Bottom of each bank of cylinders on the block between 3 and 5 and 4 and 6 about an inch or 2 above the oil pan.

Be careful with the brass plugs!  If you see an angled brass fitting with a brass plug, remove the fitting with an open ended wrench.  I learned this the hard way.   One plug wouldn't budge and I broke the angled piece.  Luckily,  I was able to get the threaded part out of the block.
CLC #11959 (Life)
1957 Coupe deVille
1991 Brougham

Bill Caddyshack

Quote from: Walter Youshock on November 16, 2014, 05:26:08 PM
Bottom of each bank of cylinders on the block between 3 and 5 and 4 and 6 about an inch or 2 above the oil pan.

Be careful with the brass plugs!  If you see an angled brass fitting with a brass plug, remove the fitting with an open ended wrench.  I learned this the hard way.   One plug wouldn't budge and I broke the angled piece.  Luckily,  I was able to get the threaded part out of the block.

Thanks

76eldo

Not to start a controversy but if the car isn't running hot and you are looking to flush and refill to be proactive I'd just leave it at that.

Plugs in the block that haven't been out ever are probably rusted in there and may or may not come out and rethread back in. Might be opening up a can of worms.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Walter Youshock

Cadillac was smart enough to use brass for the drains.  Brass plug in brass fitting might be tight but the brass to cast iron will come out.
CLC #11959 (Life)
1957 Coupe deVille
1991 Brougham

cadillacmike68

#14
I try to flush every two years. However, this time I thoroughly flushed with a flush and used 5 year long life coolant. I've had a t-fitting on the 68 since 1998, and have one on the 96 as well.

The coolant breaks down over time, and you have to get it replaced. A hose with water on the t-fitting should work well, but if the old coolant has been in there past 2 years, a flush additive helps. I had to fill about 10 10gal buckets the last time to get clear water coming out, but now I have a  nice clean system. The 8 oz of flush additive isn't any worse than the 4 gallons of old rusty coolant.

Don't forget, the older systems (68 and earlier) did not have a closed system and when it got hot enough it would blow right onto the ground. I got a 69 recovery container and that helps, especially here in perennially hot Florida.
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike

Jon S

I think you guys are overly concerned. I still have my original 56 year old radiator and no concerns not changing the antifreeze often. I believe it's an old wives tale. To each his/her own.
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

I took the return heater hose and stuck it over the side.  Started the car with a garden hose in the radiator and the heater hose over the side into a trashcan.  Let it run for a minute or so until I got clear water out.  Amazing how much crap was in there.
Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

cadillacmike68

Quote from: Jon S on November 16, 2014, 09:39:37 PM
I think you guys are overly concerned. I still have my original 56 year old radiator and no concerns not changing the antifreeze often. I believe it's an old wives tale. To each his/her own.

It gets REAL Hot here in FL and the traffic is not what it was 46 years ago. So we do what we need to do. I still have the original radiator end tanks in the 68, but had it re-cored to a 4-core.
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike

Bill Caddyshack

Quote from: Jeff Rose                                         CLC #28373 on November 16, 2014, 10:33:40 PM
I took the return heater hose and stuck it over the side.  Started the car with a garden hose in the radiator and the heater hose over the side into a trashcan.  Let it run for a minute or so until I got clear water out.  Amazing how much crap was in there.
Jeff

Sounds like a good idea. Which hose is the return? I have two heater hoses going into my water pump.

76eldo

Definitely not an old wives tale.  If super low mileage 76 Eldorados normally have rotted out heater cores and radiators, that tells me that old coolant becomes acidic to the system and does damage.

Two gallons of coolant and a half hour every two years is not a big deal to me on my cars.  Every fluid, oil, trans, and even the rear gear oil has a working life and needs to be replaced periodically.

It's good that the block plugs are brass, but I'd want to have some new ones on hand before I try to remove the old ones.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado