filling master cyl.

[pcb50]

I should know this but it is not obvious to me. How in the world do you fill an underfloor master like my '46? How was it done at the dealership? Thank you. Paul

[kav]

Yeah I'll be interested to see if anyone has any shortcuts for this particular nightmare of a job . I've done mine several times but it's a big operation and a real pain in the arse . ( that's how we spell Ass ).

[Caddy Wizard]

I have owned a dozen 49-55 models.  I have used two methods to check and fill fluid and both are a pain in the rump.  One, I nearly crawl into the engine bay, with my body resting on the fender, and reach way down past the steering column to get at the master cylinder and its integral fluid reservoir.  This crappy technique works best for young, lightweight mechanics (I am neither these days).  Two, I put the car on a lift and work from underneath, using (1) a combination of a flashlight and a mirror to see how much fluid is in the bowl and (2) use my finger as a dipstick to measure how much fluid is in the bowl. 


To actually fill the reservoir, use the smallest bottle of brake fluid available.


For 1937-1949 models, I overcome all of this nonsense by replacing the original master with a dual circuit master with remote reservoirs.  End of story.  I manufactured fifty of these kits and still have about 25, I think.  For 1950-1953 models, no such luck (I haven't manufactured the special bracket to hold the master for this newer version of the chassis).  For 1954 and 55 models, I can't even figure out how to do a dual master kit, since the booster works off of the single fluid output of the master.

[Bill Ingler #7799]

I use a battery syringe and even with my long arms, it still is a pain. If you use one of these it is always a good idea to cover the fender with a towel to protect the paint in case you spill brake fluid.   Bill

[Scott Anderson CLC#26068]

A lift is ideal and my friend whose shop has one lets me have access occasionally. When not at his shop in the past I used an automatic transmission funnel to reach for the length and a battery syringe like Bill shows for applying the fluid into the funnel in a small controlled amount. Raise the funnel slightly out of the reservoir occasionally then eventually use the finger method to check the level. I have also used a short length of plastic tubing to ensure the funnel reaches and is high enough in the engine compartment to put fluid into.

This being said, I use silicone which isn't fatal to paint but so far no splashing. Were I using DOT 3 or 4, I'd be covering everything too.

[Smedly]

I generally stand as close to the hood hinge as possible and lay over the fender. I also use a small container like a cap off a can of spray paint to pour it in.

[Jay Friedman]

Art Gardner did not mention that there is a 3rd way to solve this problem: that is, install a 54 or 55 remote reservoir for the master cylinder on a 53 or earlier Cad.  In fact, using a 54 remote reservoir and m/c cap from one of his parts cars, on my '49 he and I installed a bracket he fabricated on the driver's side inner fender to mount the '54 reservoir as well as a stainless steel line between the reservoir and the 54 m/c cap.  The 54 m/c cap with a female threaded fitting on top to accommodate the S/S line screwed right into my '49 master cylinder without any modification since the '49 and '54 master cylinders are identical except for the cap.

It works perfectly and sure beats the old method of lying on the fender and pouring the fluid into the m/c sight unseen. 

[pcb50]

Thank you Jay-that's the easiest and most direct way to deal with this vexing issue. Still I would like to know how the dealership mechanics did it as there were no '54 models yet. How about it, one of you retired mechanics from the late '40's. If only...

[Jay Friedman]

pcb50,

A dealership mechanic would have access to a lift in most situations so I imagine they usually did it from underneath as Art described, with a light and mirror or just a finger to check the level.  I worked in an Oldsmobile dealership in the late '50s and remember removing and replacing Olds m/cylinders which were in a similar position as Cadillac from underneath on a lift.  I don't remember ever having to merely check the fluid level and a lift wasn't available. 

In my view the placement of the pre-'54 master cylinder was purposely done by fiendish Cadillac engineers to test the loyalty of we present day owners to our favorite car, kind of like a medieval ordeal by fire.

[joeceretti]

I was initially perplexed by the position of the master cylinder under the drivers floor of my 38. Then I realized I could open the port in the floor, run a clear hose from the bleeder to the master and do what is essentially the same as a bench bleed myself because I am at the brake pedal. Quite convenient, once I figured it out. I assume the 53 doesn't have this handy opening in the floor. Not to mention I don't have to continually refill the master when bleeding.

[John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.]

Folks,

Interesting discussion.

I have purchased a few old brake bleeder machines with the associated adaptors (the adaptors are hard to find). The adaptor for Cadillac up to at least 1955 screws into the top of the Master cylinder. Then the line from the bleeder pot is run to the adapter that is screwed into the Master Cylinder. The bleeder pot, not a very large holding tank, is then hung from the hood. You make sure the pot has lots of fluid then pressurize the pot.

You then bleed the brakes.

When done close the valve to the MC and remove the adapter. Sometimes you get some brake fluid dribble from the line.

I can post some pictures is there is any interest.

The other option is to take an old top of a master cylinder drill and tap it for a brass fitting then connect a connection to it so you can fill via a hose.

The Johnny

[joeceretti]

I'd love to see photos. I use a big synthetic rubber stopper/cork used in wine making. It already had a hole in the middle for tubing. I considered attaching a tank to it until I decided to just push the hose onto the bleeder screw.

[John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.]

Joe,

Will see if I can get some pictures tomorrow.

But I have to tell you using wine equipment on a car will piss the wine gods off and you will be punished. Trust me on this!!

The Johnny

[John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.]

Joe,

Looks like the web site did not like my choice of words. How about will "anger" the wine gods and you be punished.

I guess pi__ is a bad word.

the Johnny

[joeceretti]

The filter should change that word to put instead of a blank hahah

Thanks Johnny.

PS, The wine gods have already done so, I was put off by my last batch of wine turning out WAY TOO SWEET. Undrinkable. Very unsatisfying. Also, the wine was a real put off.

[John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.]

Joe,

Sent pictures via e-mail. I am to lazy to dumb the size of the pictures down for the message board.

the Johnny

[gary griffin]

I think I would try to use my little inspection camera with a 1 meter flexible wand to poke around in hidden places and view it on the small TV screen.  That would justify the money I spent on it at H----- Freight.  I could not resist when it was down to about $60.

Now I need a task worthy of the tool.

[Jakes]

If it's anything like my '41 Olds (which I no longer have), with the Master Cyl directly under the steering column, and assuming you can remove the cap by using the appropriate ratchet handle, extension bar, universal joint, and socket....... my method was simply to use a very long funnel to allow for easy pouring of brake fluid.  If necessary, attach a piece of tubing for an extension.

In the process of bleeding the brakes you periodically lean over the fender (be sure you have a fender blanket to avoid scratches), lift up on the funnel to get as close a look at the reservoir as possible with a shop light placed where you can see into the reservoir, and make sure fluid is ALWAYS covering the port in the bottom of the reservoir to prevent air intrusion.  Add fluid as required as the brakes are being bled.  If you overfill and it spills around the cylinder it's messy, but no big deal... just make sure you don't deplete the reservoir while bleeding.

It's a lot of up and down, and bending over the fender and definitely a pain in the derriere, but it's doable.  REMEMBER...If you deplete the reservoir allowing air to enter the port hole at the bottom of the reservoir and you happen to be bleeding the 4th wheel, you'll have to start all over again.

Finally, when it comes time to remove the funnel make sure you don't drip any brake fluid on the paint.  It will eat through paint faster than you can say Edsel Ford (.....been there, done that ).

Regards.. Paul Jacobs, Huntington NY

[bill06447]

Wow...at least the 47 Dodge I once owned had an access panel in the floor...

Bill