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Happy Christmas - '41 Heater issues

Started by rustytractor, December 25, 2014, 08:14:44 AM

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rustytractor

Happy Christmas from England everyone - I hope you all have a great day.

Now to business......

The heaters in my '41 don't work. The switch illuminates when the lever is moved and the windscreen defroster fan works fine (but only blows cold) whilst the underseat heater fans don't run. When I get time I'll try taking 6v direct to the fans to see if they work. 

I've heard about the Ranco (?) valve automatically controlling the system but one of my other concerns is the plumbing. I've not spent much time looking at this but had a very quick look yesterday and noticed that the two pipes that enter/exit the firewall heater rad both go under the car whilst the one that comes from the hot water valve on the passenger side front of the engine just goes into the head or block (I can't remember which) at the rear of the same side. To me this looks like all the rads have been bypassed.  Am I right that really the engine valve pipe should go into the firewall heater rad then out and through the underseat rads and back to the engine making a circuit ?

It's a weak excuse but I've been so busy with other cars that I forgot that this doesn't work until I drove it in the cold yesterday.

Any geniuses out there with the answer ?

Too many cars - too little time !!

Bill Ingler #7799

Hi Russ: Here are a couple of pictures which might help you. It has been a few years since I sold the 41 so most of this is from memory. Picture 1 shows the connection from the right head to the top inlet into the defroster. This hose as you see is too long as the original shut off valve at the right head had a short stem and used a shorter hose. Out of the lower defroster outlet is a hose that goes down and under the car and then to the left under seat heater. Then from left under seat heater to the right under seat heater. Then from the right heater the hose comes forward laying on top of the frame and connects to the water pump as shown in picture 2.   Bill


rustytractor

Bill, thanks for the photos and post - it confirmed what I suspected.

Today I spend a few hours working on the '41 and now have the heater system working perfectly.

The problems were a combination of plumbing and wiring but once I'd worked out what pipes went where and traced the wiring out I put everything as it should be and the car now gets lovely and warm. The Ranco valve works as it should and cuts the fans when the preset temperature is reached - I still find the idea of an automatically controlled heating system amazing on a car of this age but it's really very simple (and clever !!).

All my Cadillacs have a special meaning to me but this particular car never ceases to make me smile.
Too many cars - too little time !!

Steve Passmore

Glad you got that fixed Russ, coincidently I brought in two more 41s this year making 3 here now.
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

rustytractor

Quote from: S Passmore on December 28, 2014, 04:46:40 AM
Glad you got that fixed Russ, coincidently I brought in two more 41s this year making 3 here now.

Thanks Steve, it was less complex than I thought and cost nothing other than time (which makes a change !)

So you have 3 41's now ? I recall when we spoke a few months back that you had bought a couple more - I must come and see them some time soon. Worst ways I'm sure we'll meet up at some shows in 2015
Too many cars - too little time !!

rustytractor

Well I drove the '41 for a couple of hours today and it's SO much better driving it in the winter when you're warm - pretty much a revelation really.

The fans cut in and out automatically when the preset temp is reached and at the highest setting it's really quite cosy.

I have a question:- The defroster rad makes a gurgling noise when accelerating which indicates that the coolant level is low but I drained the coolant and renewed the antifreeze yesterday and checked the level again today and topped up accordingly, albeit a bit high. Once warmed up the excess coolant was ejected through the overflow so the level should now be correct. Is there a specific way to bleed the air out of the system to stop this from happening ?

Another thought - Is there a difference if the flow from the water pump at the front of the engine enters this rad via the top or bottom inlet into the rad ? Could the noise be caused because I've connected the inlet hose to the wrong one ?
Too many cars - too little time !!

gary griffin

If it is hooked up correctly the air will work it's way out of the system and you will need to add some coolant after that happens
Gary Griffin

1940 LaSalle 5029 4 door convertible sedan
1942 Cadillac 6719 restoration almost complete?
1957 Cadillac 60-special (Needs a little TLC)
2013 Cadillac XTS daily driver

rustytractor

Quote from: gary griffin on December 28, 2014, 02:34:18 PM
If it is hooked up correctly the air will work it's way out of the system and you will need to add some coolant after that happens

That's a reasonable assumption but the question still remains if it's hooked up correctly to the firewall rad.

I'm also unsure it the routing from the water pump, through the firewall rad then onto underseat rads and back to the rear of the engine is relevant in some way. 
Too many cars - too little time !!

Steve Passmore

Bills picture shows the pipe from the head going to the top defroster pipe, thats how I plumb mine in but I really don't think it matters. My 37 gurgles when I accelerate and has been doing it for 2 years usually when its cold then it clears,  guess theres always a chance of getting air bubbles in there.
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

Bill Ingler #7799

Russ & Steve: Although the explanation sheet below is for 42-47 deluxe heaters, item B-3 could also pertain to the 41. This lists some reasons as to why Russ has have some gurgling in the defroster.   Bill


Steve Passmore

Says its normal on start up so thats good enough for me Bill. Thanks for that.
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

rustytractor

that's a really useful article Bill, I'll see if it settles down and if not I'll look into it further.

Even if it continues I can't see it being head gasket, no water in oil or vice versa and no loss of either plus she runs perfectly in all respects.

Steve - how long does your gurgling go on for after start up (both hot and cold) before it stops ?
Too many cars - too little time !!