Correct Water Pump For 1964 Fleetwood 60 Special

[LWaller]

I am trying to find what the correct water pump was for a 1964 Fleetwood 60 Special with a stock 429 cubic inch engine. 1/2 the people I ask tell me they were made of cast iron, the other 1/2 tell me they were made of cast aluminum. I'm looking for clarification. Perhaps they were switched midyear?

I'm also looking to learn if they were painted to match the engine or not and if they had a part number or other identifying markings cast on them.

Lastly where can I best find an original rebuilt and correct replacement? Thank you.

[Scot Minesinger]

USA Parts 304-724-6600 should be able to sell you a re-built water pump for your 64 Cadillac.  Check out the Authenticity manual for the 64 Cadillac and it should tell you if water pump was Cadillac blue, probably was.  If the timing chain is original and you plan to replace your water pump on a non-emergency basis, it may be a good time to also replace your timing chain, as the original has nylon coated sprocket on cam shaft.  I think you have to drop the oil pan also to do this (be a good idea anyway to clean it out) and if so, might as well replace rear main seal.

[LWaller]

Thank you for your response to my inquiry. I just acquired this car 3 weeks ago and although I'm not new to old cars this is my first Cadillac.

Could you please elaborate on where I find the Authenticity Manual you mentioned? Also the car only has 35,000 original miles on it and I purchased it from the original owner. Is it premature to consider the replacing the timing chain and the main seal? The main seal is not leaking nor does the car have any leaks except from the water pump. Thank you. 

[wbdeford]

What kind of water pump is on it now?

[LWaller]

It looks like an aluminum aftermarket NAPA or Autozone part. It is still connected and pretty hard to see with all the hoses connected and the radiator fan shroud still in place. Certainly doesn't look like an original part and shows no sign of any original blue paint.

[Jason Edge]

The first thing your 1964 Cadillac Shop Manual (page 7-1) says regarding the water pump is: "A die cast aluminum water pump is centrally mounted on the front of the engine front cover."   There is also other references throughout Cadillac literature regarding the introduction of the redesigned 390 engine in 1963, through to the 1964 429 regarding the aluminum front engine cover and aluminum water pump as weight saving measures.  There is also no reference to a switch over from aluminum to cast iron during the 1963 and 1964 production Serviceman Bulletins or any other period literature I have run across.

Having owned 5 driver 1963 and 1964's and parting out 43 1963 and 1964 Cadillacs over the past 18 years and observing those with what appeared to have original water pumps with original Cadillac blue engine paint, aluminum was the original material used for these water pumps. 

I believe at some point a cast iron version was offered as a replacement perhaps as a solution to a perceived problem with the aluminum pumps, or more likely, as a cost saving alternative to the considerably more expensive aluminum.

With that I have had excellent luck with both aluminum and cast iron. I have used an aluminum water pump on my 1964 Coupe DeVille since I purchased it in 1996.  There is also those that argue the physical characteristics of aluminum (e.g. warpage, corrosion from certain chemicals) out weighs (no pun intended) the weight saving of aluminum as originally introduced on these engines.  You can find a lot of articles online regarding aluminum vs cast iron.

Regarding the 1963/64 Cadillac Authenticity Manual, it is "in the works" and I am leading that effort and hope to wrap up by end of 2015.  I do have a large source stock of old used pumps, both aluminum and cast, and want to do more research in terms of casting numbers and dates, and see what additional information I can glean from later model Cadillac Literature, etc.

The main thing is you want a quality rebuilt or repro pump regardless if it is aluminum or cast iron.  If you are after originality they will look basically the same installed and painted, and as a Primary Class 20 judge during the last 3 years, there would be no deductions since the "appearance" would be as original which is all we are after at the GN's.  There is no casting #, date stamping, or other extremes taken to verifiy originality. 

[Chris McBride]

Attached fwiw is a picture of the front engine cover which also shows the locations and torque specs for the water pump.  Note the low foot pounds required.

Hope this helps.

Chris McBride

[LWaller]

Great information, thank you both. Chris I would appreciate knowing the torque specs for the water pump that you attached but can't open the PDF with the information. Could you please resend? Thank you.

[russ austin]

I would recommend getting the 64 shop manual. Easily obtained off of ebay.  It has all the torque specs, for all the jobs on the car.

[Chris McBride]

I'll try to attach it again.  I sent you a private email with my e-address in case this doesn't work.

I only mentioned the bolts since they, along with the timing cover bolts, have provided much grief to many over the years.

[Jason Edge]

You will find miscellaneous front engine cover pictures along with a scan of the shop manual page with the torque specs on the 1963/64 Cadillac Website at this link: http://6364cadillac.ning.com/photo/albums/front-engine-cover-and-water-pump-misc-pictures   This scan is at bottom on first page.

For these and many other 1963/64 Cadillac topics check out our Help Topics page at www.help.6364cadillac.com

Regardless, I would recommend a shop manual before you attempt any projects. Just search ebay for "1964 Cadillac Shop Manual". You will find originals, reprints, and CD versions (PDF file can copy to your PC).  Note if you find one on ebay coming apart at the seams you can turn it into the perfect working work bench companion using large 3 ring notebooks and thin clear page sleeves. Check out this link for what I did: http://6364cadillac.ning.com/profiles/blogs/shop-manuals-create-the-ultimate-workbench-companion