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1972 Eldorado lifting inverted "V"'s on engine intake manifold

Started by Scot Minesinger, January 28, 2015, 01:02:15 PM

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Scot Minesinger

Working a 72 Eldorado and the lifting hooks are missing.  On RWD they appear centered front to back in such a way that with trans bolted to rear of engine it would be fairly well balanced and was likely used to assemble the car at the factory.  On the FWD the same position mounting would likely cause the engine to tilt forward greatly.  Guessing that these inverted V's are more forward on FWD. 

Will someone take a look at their 500 Eldorado and tell me the info, like (this is an example of the info I need) driver side 2nd and 3rd intake manifold bolts secure V, and on passenger it is 3rd and 4th bolt back, something like that (or snap a picture)?

BTW got the pulley kit from MTS to remove air pump and it looks great.  Going to go ahead and replace the timing chain since drive pulley, fan, fuel pump, and failed radiator are out of the car - half the labor is done.  Not going to pull engine though (have to drive dowels into block, retrieve them, and drive them back in again from front, per MTS).  Given the choice between replace chain and badly leaking front main seal and not, will go with replacement.  Understand that cannot clean out oil pick up and pan or replace rear main seal.  Just not willing to remove hood and engine.

Thanks in advance for helping me.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

TJ Hopland

When you get the front cover off you will know if you should be pulling the engine and pan.   I have been in a few engines where I was not going to pull them but after seeing the mess decided it had to be done. 

When you have the timing cover off I would weld some 1/4-20 nuts to the back of the timing cover for the water pump bolts that just thread into the cover.  I had it happen twice now where everything looked good till I went to put the water pump on and found the threads let go so had to take it all apart again.  Thread a bolt into the cover first then thread the nut on so the treads stay aligned when you weld em.   There is nothing in the way on the back and from the front you can't tell they are there.  Better safe than sorry.  It may not help you but could save the next guy that changes a water pump.   

For those reading along if you do run into those being stripped I have been told that there is a metric size bolt that is just slightly larger than a 1/4" that will usually grab the damaged threads.   Seems worth a try if you have the problem and don't want to pull the motor / cover. 

The reason those often strip is there are 3 sizes of bolts in the water pump, most thread into the block.  The small ones only thread into the thin timing cover.   To make it worse if you are looking at the torque specs in the shop manual those are given in inch pounds and the rest in feet so if your brain goes into auto pilot mode and you don't notice the inch spec you could easily try to really crank those down.   Same thing happens when you get a slight leak and hope just a little more will take it.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

At this stage of my life I would not think of using the original timing cover from an "unknown" mileage or usage car, but would have a new SS cover (got mine from MTS) waiting before I did the work.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

Scot Minesinger

How about the V locations?

The pulleys from MTS are BL49 (good for 68-73,not needed for 70).  It is one that goes on drive pulley with longer SS bolts to account for increased thickness of added pulley, a new water pump pulley, plus a belt.  The pulleys are machined aluminum and look beautiful.  I powder coated them black, but was tempted to choose another color to show them off.  Also I have a 1970 alternator bracket, so the bracket that supports air pump and alternator will go away.  Should look fairly original when finished.

The water pump is a recent replacement so the 1/4" bolts that hold the pump to the cover and do not thread into block will remain undisturbed.  Yes, I suppose once the cover is off, I may change course, but we are on a budget.  I look at it as the car is better off with new chain and front seal than without.  Given that the radiator, fuel pump and all as described are already out, much of the labor is done and for the relatively inexpensive cost of the timing chain and gaskets, it would be a sin not to do it.  If there is all kinds of gunk and sludge and just a few pieces of nylon on the cam sprocket, may change course, but hopefully not.  Plan to re-use the engine cover, but if the other side of it dictates otherwise I have replacements ready to go.

Thanks,

Scot
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

Bill Young

Scot, I looked at my 1972 Eldorado Convertible and it has the engine lifting V's on top of the Engine from the factory.
Bill

The Tassie Devil(le)

G'day Scott,

The V lifting brackets are standard on all these engines, be it RWD or FWD.   Makes removing the engine or Engine and Trans/Diff so much easier.

If you want to lift the engine and trans as a unit, then mount the brackets opposite each other at the rear position.   If just the engine, then leave them in their original position, diagonally on the engine.   Notice I used a steel bar under the brackets and off-set the hooking point to the side.   This gets the hook to the centre of gravity so the whole thing lifts up straight.

If, when you remove the timing cover, and you see partial nylon-covered teeth, or no nylon at all, you will be pulling the engine to get to the mess in the sump.

When I pulled mine, there were no pieces in the sump.   All the pieces were jambed up inside the oil pickup.   Picture No. 076-1024.   I too was surprised just how all this fitted in the pickup screen, but it did, and I still had good oil pressure.   Took an hour to pick it all out with wire and the like.

Pulling the engine/trans/diff as a unit also allowed me to replace the leaking rear Chain Drive seal for the trans which cannot be done with the trans in the car.

Plus, removing the Left Exhaust Manifold makes for more swinging room when twisting it out of the engine bay.
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

TJ Hopland

My old eldo's are in winter storage but from the pics I do have hooks on 1 and 6 looks correct.   I have decent pictures of the one on 6 but can't for sure verify that 1 is the location of the other ones.   Didn't the shop manual tell you where they are supposed to be depending on if you are pulling with the trans or not?
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Scot Minesinger

Bruce,

Thanks, the V's straddle intake feeding cylinders 5 and 6 just like RWD. 

I sure hope the nylon teeth are on the sprocket and not in the pan/pick-up.  I changed a 1970 Cadillac RWD 472 timing chain with 104k miles and they nylon was 95% on the sprocket.  This car has like 70k miles and no rust.  Great pictures!  I will take some during this operation too.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty