Put Cadillac Engine In A Cadillac!

[Jon S]

I guess when Cadillac stops placing Chevrolet engines in their cars, they will be taken more seriously.  "Dare Greatly?"  I greatly dare Cadillac to return to the good old days and put a Cadillac-specific engine in their cars that is superior to the China-laden internals Chevrolet currently uses.  Even the Z06 Corvettes have valve train mechanical problems due to Chinese parts.  GM made tremendous profits years ago with each Division producing their own respective engines and had major design changes every 2 years.  The Union Contracts have hurt GM, but concessions were made with the re-structuring.  Cadillac needs to pull itself away from Chevrolet and Buick and clearly establish itself as a premier product once and for all before it's too late!

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Not an issue if your Cadillac has fins. 

[66 Eldo]

I don't like saying this, but it seems like it is too late.

Engine sharing between GM divisions has been going on since Cadillac used the Oldsmobile 350 in their new '76 Seville. Then in "76/'77,  there was the notorious Olds Cutlass Chevy engine swap in when the Olds Cutlass was the best selling car in America and Oldsmobile did not have enough engines so they installed Chevy engines without disclosure. This really ticked off the repeat Oldsmobile owner who wanted a Rocket 350 Olds engine.

This I feel, was the start of the decline of Oldsmobile, which created wandering eyes from buyers towards other brands.

In the 60s and 70s,  there WAS a difference between GM's four divisions 350 V8 and 455 offerings. I can sit blindfolded in an Olds, Chevy, Buick or Pontiac with a 350 and tell you which car I am in. In the 80s ,90s and 2000s, the homogenization of GM that occurred with the use of GM engines crossing divisions really exacerbated the redundancy problem GM had. This has been alleviated somewhat with the closure of Oldsmobile and Pontiac. Those cars had Chevy and Buick engines so they weren't what they were and people noticed it.

A book could be written on this topic and maybe it has. Its hard to say how much of GMs issues are from cost-cutting measures like engine sharing or the quality problems years that still are perceived by most people today. These ideas get passed down to the younger generations.

I speak to many younger car crazy kids and Cadillac isn't on their radar. Its perceived as an old man's car but they wouldn't want one even when they are older. They will buy a Lexus, Mercedes, BMW or any full-size Euro car.

We can thank the automotive critics for this. Generally speaking, if its not foreign and ride like a pull-wagon, they don't like it. They don't respect the fact that many people like a soft riding car and don't need or want a car that handles like a sports car.

Back to the point:

Lexus seems to be getting away with installing their lower tier brand Toyota engines. My guess is because Toyotas are perceived as "bullet-proof" and "last forever".  I have seen many Toyota and  Lexus models go very high in the miles without major repairs, but until I see no toolboxes in the Toyota dealers or no engines or transmissions out for major repairs, to me, they are just another car.

[Big Apple Caddy]

I guess when Cadillac stops placing Chevrolet engines in their cars, they will be taken more seriously.

If it's a good and suitable engine I don’t see why it should matter which division of the company may have engineered, developed, built and/or also uses it.  There's a lot to be said about economies of scale especially in today's more globally competitive world and there's little reason to "reinvent the wheel" with each make or model if you don't have to.

I feel the same way about platforms.  If it's a good and suitable platform, it shouldn't matter which other divisions use it, were involved in its development, etc.

I'd much rather see Cadillac offer models that help keep them competitive by using/sharing platforms and engines from other divisions than have exclusives with development costs that price them out of the market.  Perhaps one appropriate "halo" car could be an exception.

[Big Apple Caddy]

This I feel, was the start of the decline of Oldsmobile, which created wandering eyes from buyers towards other brands.

Decline?  Oldsmobile had its best calendar sales years in the mid 1980s, well after the whole engine sharing controversy.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

Yup - 1985 to be precise - Olds' banner year. 

I once owned one of the "lawsuit" Oldsmobiles - a '77 Delta 88 Royal Coupe with a Chevy 350.

Had it back in 2008 so the lawsuit didn't benefit me of course. The result of the class action was an extension of the warranty from 12 months/12,000 miles to 5 years/50,000 miles(?)- don't quote me on the exact duration.

From that point, GM had to disclose whether the engine came from a different GM make than what the car was and over time, engine identity was progressively deemphasized - ultimately calling them "corporate" engines for plants used in multiple makes. And yes, the public had long since ceased to care what their engines were.

Ironically, and much to my surprise, everybody who was interested my '77 Delta 88 wanted to have the Chevy 350, not the Olds Rocket 350.

Go figure...

[Jon S]

If it's a good and suitable engine I don’t see why it should matter which division of the company may have engineered, developed, built and/or also uses it.  There's a lot to be said about economies of scale especially in today's more globally competitive world and there's little reason to "reinvent the wheel" with each make or model if you don't have to.

I feel the same way about platforms.  If it's a good and suitable platform, it shouldn't matter which other divisions use it, were involved in its development, etc.

I'd much rather see Cadillac offer models that help keep them competitive by using/sharing platforms and engines from other divisions than have exclusives with development costs that price them out of the market.  Perhaps one appropriate "halo" car could be an exception.

If I'm paying premium dollars to buy a Cadillac, I don't want a Chevrolet engine - period.  I can pay less and get a Chevrolet product.  Product differentiation is more than affixing a nameplate on a vehicle . . . it is what makes this car uniquely different and worth the extra dollars.  The Chevrolet engine is still based on 1955 push rod technology; whereas, most other manufacturers have evolved to dual overhead cams, etc.  In the 1950's Cadillac boasted their engines were assembled in climate controlled environments.  It takes more than lipstick to make a Chevrolet engine a Cadillac engine!

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Having talked to those origi9nally involved in Cadillac Engineering Division and understanding the autonomy of the division at that time my guess the chance of Cadillac EVER getting its exclusive Engineering and style divisions back ranks right up therre3 with the return of fins. 
Greg Surfas

[INTMD8]

Not an issue if your Cadillac has fins. 

Unless your finned Cadillac has an LSA engine

Still not an issue as that's a damn powerful/reliable engine though a pushrod V8 isn't quite as refined as what the other luxury marques have to offer.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Engine swapping went all the way back to the LaSalle years when the straight eight was an Oldsmobile-based engine.

But, when comparing bodies, there is a lot of corporate body structures that are virtually the same.   Look at the 1959 models of each of the GM cars and when removing the front and rear panels, the middle bits are the same.

Bruce.

[Jon S]

Unless your finned Cadillac has an LSA engine

Still not an issue as that's a damn powerful/reliable engine though a pushrod V8 isn't quite as refined as what the other luxury marques have to offer.

If you check the Corvette Boards, that engine isn't so reliable and is composed of lots of Chinese components!

[INTMD8]

I work on them for a living. Are they 100% dead nuts bulletproof? No but nothing is, and it's certainly more reliable than a northstar.

Even modified the LS engines are excellent.

[mgbeda]

Actually GM kept on having different engines for different divisions long after everyone else gave up on that.  '68 was the last Lincoln that didn't have a Ford engine, and even that was called a MEL V8, short for Mercury / Edsel / Lincoln.  I can't remember when Chrysler last had unique engines, probably the 50's at the latest.  GM got nailed in 1977 because they actually advertised that a Delta 88 had an Oldsmobile Rocket V8.  Everyone else just kept quiet about where their engines came from.

Not that I wouldn't like it if Cadillacs all came with Cadillac engines, but I have to agree that it just Ain't Gonna Happen.  Heck, they put VW engines in Bentleys these days.  I won't say that nobody cares, but not enough people care to make the beancounters think it's worth the money to develop a unique engine when there's one off-the-shelf that will work.

-mB

[JerRita]

I have 2 91 Broughams w/ the Chevy 350 One of the best damn cars I've owned The daily driver has over 300 K on the original engine w/ no rebuilds and still turns heads The back up car has 123 K and will go into full service when the grey turns to dust around me JeRita

[bill06447]

The LS series engines aren't Chevrolet engines-they are "GM" engines, have been since inception. Time to get with the times, gentlemen http://www.gmpowertrain.com/PowertrainOverview.aspx

Bill

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Oops, I should have made myself clearer, the door frames are virtually the same, with the outer skins different.

The Windscreens for a '59 Chev fit a '59 Cadillac, as do a lot of interior parts.

Bruce.

[Jay Friedman]

As far as I know all Chrysler Corp. cars had essentially the same engine not long after the beginning of the company in the 1920s.  The only differences were that Desoto and Chrysler cars had flathead 6 cylinder engines with a larger displacement than the one used in Plymouth and Dodge.  Their flathead 8 cylinder inline engines, which were similar in design to the sixes, were generally only available on Desoto and Chrysler.  When they came out with OHV V8s in the fifties it was generally similar.  The big hemi engines were used on Desoto and Chrysler and a smaller non-hemi engine on Dodge and Plymouth.  These weren't hard and fast rules, and later in the fifties and sixties there were lots of variations but, in general, each Mopar brand did not have a motor specifically engineered for it like GM did until the '70s.

The Ford Motor Co. was the same.  While Lincoln always had its own motors engineered specifically for it (though some were also used in large Ford trucks), Ford and Mercury (and Edsel) generally shared motors.  As with Chrysler, there were minor differences in displacement and maybe carburetion. 

Only GM had engines and some other drivetrain components that each division engineered for itself and which were in most cases totally different from the other divisions' components, so when this approach was abandoned in the '70s (with all the resulting controversy), GM was merely adopting the approach of the rest of the industry.

[Big Apple Caddy]

If I'm paying premium dollars to buy a Cadillac, I don't want a Chevrolet engine - period.

Across the board Cadillac-exclusive engines are unnecessary.  Money is much better spent elsewhere.

There are many buyers that would rather have a Chevrolet (known for performance models like Corvette and Camaro) engine in their performance-oriented Cadillac today.

[Dan LeBlanc]

Technically the HydraMatic wasn't a Cadillac exclusive transmission either. It was used across Pontiacs and GMC trucks also. So the parts dipping goes back even further than we like to acknowledge.

[Jay Friedman]

In fact, the early Hydra-matic were used by many non-GM makes too. Besides GMC trucks as Dan mentioned, Cad, Olds and Pontiac, it was used by 49 through 53 or so Lincolns, Kaiser, some models of Nash, Hudson, some Chevrolet trucks too, as well as Rolls Royce.  In fact, when GM introduced the Jetaway Hydramatic in 1956, Rolls continued to manufacture the 40-55 version itself until the mid-sixties.

GM divisions always shared certain components, including Delco Remy electrical equipment, certain door hardware as well as body shells.  For example, my 49 Cad shares its body shell and door latches with 48-49 Olds 98 and 49 Buick Roadmaster and Super.  This comes in handy when buying the expensive door latch which is usually less expensive when sold as an Olds or Buick part.