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Looking to buy "my first" Cadillac

Started by Tonyv_73, March 19, 2015, 04:21:06 PM

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Tonyv_73

Okay so Im 18, my father drives Cadillacs and my grandfather drove Cadillacs. My dad has 66 Calais,  73 eldo, and 63 deville which we take turn driving to shows and what not. I bought my first car, a 1970 Buick wildcat and it's been a rough journey as my daily driver, one problem after another. I'm looking for a somewhat newer Cadillac to drive that will last me a long time.  I've been looking at 1990-92 broughams, with either a 305 or 350. I'm curious if anyone knows if the 4.9 v8 from the early 90's is a good motor that will last me. I saw a few cars with that motor for sale on Craigslist. And also Im not a fan of northstars, I've been told they could be problematic. I also do not like the 93-96 brougham body style.  My question is will the 4.9 pfi motor be problamatic or will it last for a long time? And is the 4.9 motor the same as the 4.5 and the 4.1 (ht-4100 which I heard is also problematic), Also is there any other Cadillac I should look into? I'd prefer something fuel injected rather than carbureted for a daily driver.
1963 Series 62 Convertible
1965 Eldorado
1966 Calais Sedan
1970 Fleetwood Brougham
1970 Wildcat
1970 Coupe Deville
1973 Eldorado Convertible
1974 Coupe Deville
1976 Coupe Deville
1981 Eldorado Biarritz
1985 Eldorado Commemorative Edition
1991 Brougham
1993 Eldorado 4.9
1996 Fleetwood Brougham
2006 XLR
2006 DTS
2014 XTS

Barry M Wheeler #2189

If you want a dependable, attractive Cadillac, find a nice 1978 or 79. They are nearly indestructible.
Barry M. Wheeler #2189


1981 Cadillac Seville
1991 Cadillac Seville

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

4.5 & 4.9 are both very reliable engines.

Avoid Northstar & HT 4100.

Also recommend 1977 - 1980 Cadillac DeVille/Fleetwood Brougham with 425 carb (77-79) and 368 (1980). In terms of durability, comfort and ease of use, they're difficult to beat. 
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

waterzap

#3
I might add the 4.5 and 4.9 are evolutions of the HT4100. Which was basically the 4.1
They are not the easiest engines to work on, especially the water pump.

A nice 77-80 Coupe Deville would be a great choice.  I have a 78 Eldorado. Same engine as the Deville, but more complicated because of the FWD layout. The Deville is RWD.

If you want FI, then dont go for the 70s FI. They do work, but parts can be difficult to find.
Then your only real choice would be the 4.5 or 4.9. These cars are also all FWD
Leesburg, AL

Tonyv_73

But how reliable would a 1977-80 Cadillac be in terms of being a carburated motor, does anyone think I will run into problems if I drive it Dailey? I know a lot of you will say "people drove the cars new without problems" but I just feel a carburated car won't be as dependable as a fuel injected car in the long run today.
1963 Series 62 Convertible
1965 Eldorado
1966 Calais Sedan
1970 Fleetwood Brougham
1970 Wildcat
1970 Coupe Deville
1973 Eldorado Convertible
1974 Coupe Deville
1976 Coupe Deville
1981 Eldorado Biarritz
1985 Eldorado Commemorative Edition
1991 Brougham
1993 Eldorado 4.9
1996 Fleetwood Brougham
2006 XLR
2006 DTS
2014 XTS

Tonyv_73

And i know fuel injection was an option in the late 70's and early 80's but ive heard stories of people's cars catching Fire because of some issues. I heard it's difficult to work on those early fuel injection motors
1963 Series 62 Convertible
1965 Eldorado
1966 Calais Sedan
1970 Fleetwood Brougham
1970 Wildcat
1970 Coupe Deville
1973 Eldorado Convertible
1974 Coupe Deville
1976 Coupe Deville
1981 Eldorado Biarritz
1985 Eldorado Commemorative Edition
1991 Brougham
1993 Eldorado 4.9
1996 Fleetwood Brougham
2006 XLR
2006 DTS
2014 XTS

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

I had been eyeballing this one but I already have a '77 CdV with red leather.

It sold quick.

I think the market is going to take off on these cars within the next 5 years and they're not going to be any cheaper than they are now.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1977-CADILLAC-COUPE-DE-VILLE-NICEST-ONE-ON-THE-PLANET-SUPER-LOW-MILES-/301561005045?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&forcerrptr=true&hash=item46366fc3f5&item=301561005045&nma=true&si=gVE5%252F2fvm3JdlpKKW%252Bw75Xh2FxI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

waterzap

Thats a difficult question. For a daily driver, I probably would not drive a car that old. The thing with a carburetor is that it will run, even badly. FI will either run great, or not at all. And if it doesn’t run, it can be difficult to figure out why it doesn’t.

Cars stopped using carbs not because they aren’t reliable but because they aren’t efficient. Cars with carburetors start different, and drive different. But if they are set up correctly they will run quite reliable. If you want basic, carbs are the way to go, but it is old tech. So maybe focus on the 90s cars, or post 2000 Northstars.
Leesburg, AL

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Quote from: Tonyv_73 on March 19, 2015, 05:07:27 PM
But how reliable would a 1977-80 Cadillac be in terms of being a carburated motor, does anyone think I will run into problems if I drive it Dailey? I know a lot of you will say "people drove the cars new without problems" but I just feel a carburated car won't be as dependable as a fuel injected car in the long run today.

A daily driver is another story.

If you want a daily driver you don't want a big thirsty RWD 425 V8. Too impractical plus wear and tear on a older car that it doesn't need. 

You'll be much better off with a modern FWD for daily use.

Avoid older FI cars unless well versed with such. 
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

waterzap

#9
Quote from: Tonyv_73 on March 19, 2015, 05:11:04 PM
And i know fuel injection was an option in the late 70's and early 80's but ive heard stories of people's cars catching Fire because of some issues. I heard it's difficult to work on those early fuel injection motors

I had a Seville. Its tricky to work on and some of the parts are difficult to find. Do do work well, but they arent for everyone.
Cars caught fire because people didnt replace the little rubber seals that sealed the fuel injectors to the manifold. These cars had two fuel pumps, and when things started to leak, you had a problem.

How about a post 2000 Northstar?
And the Northstars reallly are good engines. They just had head gasket issues. SOME cars had head gasket issues. They can be fixed for around $2000. So not the end of the world. But they do have a great sound and quite powerful. Around 2000 GM implemented some changes and I think the head gasket issue went away mostly.
Leesburg, AL

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Head gasket issues on Northstar had been solved in 2006 models - supposedly.

We'll see. 
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Tonyv_73

#11
My father sold a 2001 deville with a headgasket issue, plus I heard something along the lines of if your car overheats since the you have an aluminum heads and steel bolts that's what causes the head gasket leak issue with is difficult to fix. (I'm not a professional mechanic so if anything I said makes no sense it's because I don't fully know what I'm talking about, I'm only repeating what I've heard)
1963 Series 62 Convertible
1965 Eldorado
1966 Calais Sedan
1970 Fleetwood Brougham
1970 Wildcat
1970 Coupe Deville
1973 Eldorado Convertible
1974 Coupe Deville
1976 Coupe Deville
1981 Eldorado Biarritz
1985 Eldorado Commemorative Edition
1991 Brougham
1993 Eldorado 4.9
1996 Fleetwood Brougham
2006 XLR
2006 DTS
2014 XTS

Tonyv_73

Not to go off topic with the northstars, but nobody as brought up the 90-92 broughams with 307-305-350 motors, anyone have any opinions on them? I had the impression that those cars would be extremely reliable, plus easy to find parts for since the body style lasted so long
1963 Series 62 Convertible
1965 Eldorado
1966 Calais Sedan
1970 Fleetwood Brougham
1970 Wildcat
1970 Coupe Deville
1973 Eldorado Convertible
1974 Coupe Deville
1976 Coupe Deville
1981 Eldorado Biarritz
1985 Eldorado Commemorative Edition
1991 Brougham
1993 Eldorado 4.9
1996 Fleetwood Brougham
2006 XLR
2006 DTS
2014 XTS

936CD69

If you want a great daily driver you can't beat a 90-93 deVille with the 4.5 (1990) or 4.9 (91-93) port fuel injected engines. My 93s will both get consistent 19+ city driving, around 26.5 hiway, plus have plenty of power. I've got my red 89K SDV for sale, CLC Senior car, service history since day one, needs nothing. If you have any interest PM me..I am a motivated seller!  :)
90-92 Broughams are nice cars, throttle body injected Chevy (base engine in 90 was carbed 307 Olds). Very nice ride, someone will probably give you an idea of MPG.
Craig Brillhart CLC# 26217
1993 Sedan deVille Spring Edition Carmine Red White Top-SOLD!
1993 Sedan deVille Spring Edition Triple Black
CLCMRC Benefactor #302

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Stick with 88 - 93 DeVille/Fleetwood FWD w/ 4.5-4.9.

Can't go wrong with one of those - assuming well maintained.

Probably the best Cadillac for the money at this point in time. 25 years old is just about when the market bottoms out on a used car.

**90-92 Brougham w/305 or 350 is fine too but like 77-80, is not practical for daily use, IMO. Body/trim/interior parts are getting more and more expensive, plus it will be thirsty at the pump.

You need to decide whether you want a daily driver or a car to preserve and use sparingly.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Tonyv_73

To be honest im not really concerned about gas mileage at the moment, my job pays for my gas as is with a 1970 Buick (455). I was also wondering what's the differences between the 4.5 and 4.9 motors. And what are common issues people find with them?
1963 Series 62 Convertible
1965 Eldorado
1966 Calais Sedan
1970 Fleetwood Brougham
1970 Wildcat
1970 Coupe Deville
1973 Eldorado Convertible
1974 Coupe Deville
1976 Coupe Deville
1981 Eldorado Biarritz
1985 Eldorado Commemorative Edition
1991 Brougham
1993 Eldorado 4.9
1996 Fleetwood Brougham
2006 XLR
2006 DTS
2014 XTS

936CD69

The 4.9 is a longer stroke 4.5. Late 91-95 4.9s had much beefier blocks, 200 HP and torquy. The most common problem on the later engines was water pumps. They ALL have some degree of "mallet noise" but I've seen a lot of them exceed 200K with no major issues. They do need the coolant changed every 3-4 years with the GM coolant pellets added.

88 and 89 4.5s have throttle body injection and roller valve lifters. MUCH better engines than the 82-87 4.1s. I'd stick to 92-93 to make sure you get the good block.

4T60E Transmission in the 90-93s are reliable as well.....
Craig Brillhart CLC# 26217
1993 Sedan deVille Spring Edition Carmine Red White Top-SOLD!
1993 Sedan deVille Spring Edition Triple Black
CLCMRC Benefactor #302

76eldo

Hi Anthony.

It's very nice to see you posting on the CLC message board.  We met at the GN in Lake George.  I really enjoyed having dinner with you and your parents, and the Caristo's. 

You are getting a lot of great advice here and I recently had to make a decision on what Cadillac to buy to use as an occasional driver for nights and weekends.  I ended up with an '07 DTS but it sounds like you want to go with an earlier car.

I can tell you that the front wheel drive DeVille series cars from 89 on up are nice comfortable cars and that the 89 and 90 have the 4.5 and the 91 and newer have the 4.9.  Great engines but oil leaks are common and difficult to repair.  It's getting hard to find these with low miles, and ordinary wear parts are getting old.

The later Devilles and Fleetwoods of the 90's with the 305 and 350 are nice too, and the 93-96 style with the LT-1 are great runners.

I wouldn't be afraid of a 77-79 Deville and they are very easy to work on.  Carb engines are really simple and you don't need injection for the car to be reliable, but you do need a proper carb on there.

Due to my personal experiences, I would recommend staying away from the Northstar powered cars built before '06.  They will all need headgasket jobs and crankcase resealing at some point, even the low mileage ones, and this work is expensive.

At this point in time, buying any HT4100 car as a daily driver is a very bad idea.

Since you have experience with your father's beautiful 73 Eldo, I would consider a 76-78 Eldo as well, however driving one in NY through the winter would be a crime.

I wish you luck in your search and I hope to see you at a show sometime.  Please give your folks my regards.

Brian

Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

chrisntam

Here's my two pennies:

Get a late model regular car for your daily driver.

Get an old Cadillac as a hobby car to impress the ladies.

;)
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Any idea how much you're willing to spend?

A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute